|||||| [2.5.2d] The Endless Retch (Updated 1/29 w/Temp League Guide!) ||||||

I've updated the guide with a few changes in preparation for 2.3. I will finish updating the guides with new videos once Prophecy is released.

Hi Dakoos,

I've been using your guide as a build template for a Blade Vortex variant and I thought of a question as I was looking at your conversion diagram. Does your build's 38% flask effect not apply to Vessel of Vinktar's 20% phys->lightning conversion?

edit: just tested it

https://i.gyazo.com/4b97e253733a768b514b648a8d3ecd68.gif

note the phys dmg decrease and light dmg increase in stats page before/after

flask effect does affect the conversion, so either your calculations could be off or the diagram is mislabeled


Sadly my build idea got dumpstered on.
I was hoping poison from Cospri's Will could be applied by the Retch chaos damage, but it can't poison since it's reflected damage. (asked Mark) Furthermore, the remaining physical damage percentage would be a paltry 22.4%, not worth using for poison even if Atziri's promise was used. Oh well, now I don't have to color a 5 off Cospri :^)

edit2: One more question, how would you rate Lightning Penetration in your setup?

"

soundee wrote:

Hi Dakoos,

I've been using your guide as a build template for a Blade Vortex variant and I thought of a question as I was looking at your conversion diagram. Does your build's 38% flask effect not apply to Vessel of Vinktar's 20% phys->lightning conversion?

edit: just tested it

https://i.gyazo.com/4b97e253733a768b514b648a8d3ecd68.gif

note the phys dmg decrease and light dmg increase in stats page before/after

flask effect does affect the conversion, so either your calculations could be off or the diagram is mislabeled


Sadly my build idea got dumpstered on.
I was hoping poison from Cospri's Will could be applied by the Retch chaos damage, but it can't poison since it's reflected damage. (asked Mark) Furthermore, the remaining physical damage percentage would be a paltry 22.4%, not worth using for poison even if Atziri's promise was used. Oh well, now I don't have to color a 5 off Cospri :^)

edit2: One more question, how would you rate Lightning Penetration in your setup?

Yes, great catch on the 38% flask effect. It also effects the Lightning Life Leech from Vinktar's. You can see that value go up in your character sheet as well. I just updated the diagram to show both changes.

Interesting idea, and your results are consistent with my tests. I tried picking up the "Dirty Techniques" cluster, and noticed that it did not seem to treat The Retch's chaos damage as a "hit". Can you provide a link to Mark's comment?

It's hard enough to subjectively test Penetration against tooltip DPS, but it gets even harder to test it with this build since a lot of our damage comes from a non-tooltip source. I know Lightning Pen increases damage done by The Retch (because it increases Lightning Damage done, which causes more instant leech), but I have no idea to what extent. I think the only way to know would be testing against players with various amounts of lightning resist, which I haven't done.

I went back and forth on grabbing the Arcing Blows cluster, which is probably worth it. I would not recommend replacing any of the gems in my 6L with Lightning Penetration, though.

https://i.gyazo.com/0f5ed966355688b32a3c33a5e9cc37b6.png


currently my 6L is going to be Blade Vortex / inc Aoe / echo / controlled / phys->light / light pen. might be swapping light pen for elemental focus, but light pen is probably better for mapping when accounting for resist mods on maps and rare mobs

hm thought of another point: is Retch's reflected chaos damage amplified by shock? I feel like players take more reflect damage when on shocked ground, for example.

"

soundee wrote:

https://i.gyazo.com/0f5ed966355688b32a3c33a5e9cc37b6.png


currently my 6L is going to be Blade Vortex / inc Aoe / echo / controlled / phys->light / light pen. might be swapping light pen for elemental focus, but light pen is probably better for mapping when accounting for resist mods on maps and rare mobs

hm thought of another point: is Retch's reflected chaos damage amplified by shock? I feel like players take more reflect damage when on shocked ground, for example.

Good to receive confirmation from Mark on that one.

See the quoted conversation below. It's from page 2 of this thread, and addresses the notion of The Retch double dipping on enemies with the Shocked status ailment.

"

Dakoos wrote:

"

ThatsSoGoodman wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

one - mostly irrelevant note - the damage dealt by Retch is a 'reflect' damage. it does not add up to your attack nor is modified (further) by any of your attack related mods. there is a quote from Mark floating around there explaining how does this thing work and what is/isnt possible to with this setup

I wonder if this means that Shock double-dips with the retch. I think it does. Occultist seems like a great pairing, with both Void Beacon and Profane Bloom.

The more I think about this, the sillier I feel for not realizing that this was happening sooner. Of course we are double dipping against shocked enemies. It looks like this.

1. Damage shocked enemy & deal 50% more phys/ele damage.
2. Leech more life because you dealt more damage.
3. The Retch adds more chaos damage to your hit because you leeched more (from your phys/ele dmg).
4. The Chaos Damage dealt by The Retch is boosted by an ADDITIONAL 50% more multiplier because the enemy it is damaging is Shocked.

Thanks for the insight! As I said earlier, it would be difficult to prove this through testing, but that explains why my actual damage increases from testing were so much higher than what my calculations said they would be.

Hello, I really want to try this build out!

I am however playing on the Prophecy temp league and I don't think The Retch is possible to get. What should I do differently?

"

Bassemannen wrote:

Hello, I really want to try this build out!

I am however playing on the Prophecy temp league and I don't think The Retch is possible to get. What should I do differently?

Hello,

The Retch is the item that makes this build possible. Without it, it's just a vanilla cyclone build. Sorry :(

Major update to build today. Enjoy!

Awesome build sir, keep up the good work!

Really awesome build, i always want to try cyclone build but this build guide too costly for me.
Dakoos, any budget cyclone build recommended to let me get start? thanks