Can we talk about the map drop rate?

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Hyskoa wrote:
If POE is going for an ARPG styled game(which it is) then you level a character to completion, use it to do some high level content to collect upper tier loot. If something awesome drops, you roll an alt.
There are previous few conceivable builds that require 10 additional passive points from L90 to L100 to complete the build in a way that defines it, as opposed to just adding DPS or survivability.

"If something awesome drops, you roll an alt." Why would something awesome drop necessitate a rolling of an alt? I assume you mean that you need an alt to use said awesome item, since you followed with:

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Right now however, you wait until there's a new league for a skill reset or buy orbs of regret and simply reset the character you already have since regrinding a character just isn't worth it.
Not to mention you have limited character spaces.
In which case, this is so utterly untrue, because the time needed to "regrind" a character to a usable state isn't a lot. Most builds come online by L60-70. If you really need to regret a L100 character to oblivion to use a new awesome drop, 120 regrets shouldn't be taking a L100 much time to farm either, no?

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So you're actively discouraged from rolling another character by the game itself, where the premise of an ARPG(not MMORPG) is to try out build after build after speculative build. So much so that people start inventing insane builds(wirtadin anyone?) just to keep trying out new and fun stuff.
I have lots of alts. I try out tons of builds. I just delete the characters that become obsolete after skill tree revamps, because I have more than enough alts sitting around with free respecs. How many alts do you want to roll in a month of gameplay, to try out new speculative builds? 5? 10? 100?

(Also, your stated premise of an ARPG is once again just your opinion.)

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Not so in this game, hence why it is bad gamedesign.
Rebuffed, once again due to subjectivity.

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The way to fix this is as followed:
Disconnect acquiring XP from acquiring good loot.

In D2, you did a few thousand Blood/Bhaal/Cow runs and you were max level at which point the semi-gearless character was strong enough to solo the content which would grant you a small chance of upper tier items. This was possible since the game run fluid as hell. Battle mechanics felt responsive making it actually fun to play. In POE, unless you play a bow character with 60+ movement speed, it's going to feel sluggish. Like a tortoise crawling through a world of butter. It's why everybody is abusing whirling blades, since the game is too slow otherwise.
I have never played a bow character with 60+ movement speed, neither have I used whirling blades on any character at all. Doesn't feel too slow, doesn't feel too sluggish. To me. See why your arguments are now just a battle of opinions?
small note on D2 vs POE
It's very interesting that you brought up D2 as an example, with regard to the leveling process. How many characters did you level to completion (by your definition, L99) in D2 before rolling an alt?


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People don't constantly want to reroll maps just to get more experience. It actively slows the game down if you're playing with a group. They also don't want to go look for the last 100 enemies to squeeze every single bit out of a well-rolled map. These activities are boring, so boring.
You kill, you move, you kill again, you move, you get to a point where the enemies are too far apart for good xp/hour, you create a new instance of the same map.
Hey, now you're talking some sense. The core of your argument is really the rolling of maps being a necessary part of the endgame in POE, which is gated by currency (as opposed to freely available zones in.. I assume D2?) I can accept that as a valid point, though I'm not quite sure if the general forum trawler will.

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THAT AND ONLY THAT is a good flow for an ARPG. Otherwise, you might as well start introducing Onyxia and tank/DPS/Healer classes, since it's obvious POE wants desperately to be an MMORPG.
Okay now you're going off tangent again, unfortunately.
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consca wrote:
Okay now you're g...

I could write an extensive reply here, but ggg won't care(or even read it) and nothing will change for the better.
Nor do I know you sufficiently to care enough to want to convince you of my points.

So I figure, why bother. I'll just repeat my points from time to time on this forum for letting off some steam that this game causes while continuing to not pay a penny ever again until the changes are made. When enough people do this, we might see some positive changes.

Cheers.
Vote +1 to change Path of Exile to Path of Nerfs.
We hate to say, but ProjectPT was right.
I want to point out that maps "requiring currency to roll" is actually a silly thing to say, because maps exist to USE currency on. Alchs are the "final" vendor "buyable" currency items, they are also pretty useless in late game apart from trading with players. Chaos are also pretty much not used at all, apart from maybe re-rolling carto strongboxes. Same with trans, alts, augs. Hence the concept of maps.
You use "useless" currency on maps to get higher chances per time used to drop "useful" currency, high level rares and uniques
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I want to point out that maps "requiring currency to roll" is actually a silly thing to say, because maps exist to USE currency on. Alchs are the "final" vendor "buyable" currency items, they are also pretty useless in late game apart from trading with players. Chaos are also pretty much not used at all, apart from maybe re-rolling carto strongboxes. Same with trans, alts, augs. Hence the concept of maps.
You use "useless" currency on maps to get higher chances per time used to drop "useful" currency, high level rares and uniques


And uniques were made to be "unique" while Perandus was the richest family you could ever imagine.
But we both have an onslaught of shit tier uniques that I wouldn't even accept if you gave them away for free and cadiro offers rare shit tier amulets all the time, not making me want to part with my coins.

So yeah, intentions mean nothing. The end result is all that counts.
Vote +1 to change Path of Exile to Path of Nerfs.
We hate to say, but ProjectPT was right.
I think I've gained red maps since starting the climb. Especially now with Zana selling more t11 and lower to help you build back up if you get bad returns.
Fake Temp League Elitists LUL
See, that is the thing. If my character is capable of doing t15 maps. I WANT TO ALWAYS DO T15 MAPS (and I'm not really all that worried about my levelling speed, I'm trying to progress to the point where I can afford my 6L pcs, and it takes way to long running backwards on map tiers).

I mean, seriously.. Is anyone here arguing that it feels fun, and like a worthwhile use of time to have to take 1 step forward and 2 steps back all the time? That it is at all fun to have to run maps that are underpowered for your character constantly, that it feels good to have to buy overpriced maps from characters who have managed to get their Zana to a higher level instead of buying gear they need, or for that matter be virtually forced to spend that same sort of money merely trying to stay at the highest levels of end game content? That the people who have done it, and I assume there must be many, feel good about going bankrupt trying to maintain a red map pool? Really?

As it stands, I bought a t10, and found it almost as easy as previous tiers, but I'm stuck wasting time running t5 maps, which is just senseless. Having freaking t1 and 2 maps drop in a t8 map is so STUPID. Why in hell would I pick that crap up? Why in hell would I want to run maps lower than when my character is capable of, that is the point. Its just stupid mindless boring busywork. And it has probably cost this game more players and GGG more ultimate income than most people (especially GGG) realize.

To the guy above: Maybe I should just toss an alc on every map, but it feels like a waste of currency I could use to fill in gaps for the chaos recipe, and maybe you are assured that you are getting a proper return on your investment, but I currently lack such faith.

The point about withholding money until things get better is really a good one. I hope people will not only do that, but make posts saying. Well, I was thinking of continuing to play this, maybe even buying some stash tabs, but I think I'll keep an eye on things until x happens (the lag situation improves, Cadiro stops offering useless stuff, they make something like a loot 2.0 so we wouldn't be forced to rely on loot filters, endgame loot actually starts dropping at endgame, we don't have to waste time on maps lower than what our chars can do, etc, etc). I think such actions could actually have an impact.

In fact, let me just say: until the map drop rate becomes sustainable w/o heavy reliance on good RNG, I won't be investing anything into this game except time until I get sick enough of grunt work and wasted time and move on to another game.

Otherwise, this is a good discussion, glad to see it. :)

Also, thanks to the turnip guy, that is awesome, I put you on friends - hopefully that means I will see when you are online (but I will say that my larger goal remains, because I honestly would rather not find myself in this situation if I decide to roll new characters next league).
Last edited by taosk8r on Apr 30, 2016, 5:42:02 PM
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taosk8r wrote:
If my character is capable of doing t15 maps. I WANT TO ALWAYS DO T15 MAPS
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buy overpriced maps from characters who have managed to get their Zana to a higher level instead of buying gear they need
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Maybe I should just toss an alc on every map, but it feels like a waste of currency I could use to fill in gaps for the chaos recipe, and maybe you are assured that you are getting a proper return on your investment, but I currently lack such faith.
If you can comfortably fullclear t15 maps, you do not need additional gear. Basically, you are a cheapskate packrat complaining about expenditures well within your means.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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taosk8r wrote:
I WANT TO ALWAYS DO T15 MAPS (and I'm not really all that worried about my levelling speed, I'm trying to progress to the point where I can afford my 6L pcs, and it takes way to long running backwards on map tiers).

As it stands, I bought a t10, and found it almost as easy as previous tiers, but I'm stuck wasting time running t5 maps, which is just senseless. Having freaking t1 and 2 maps drop in a t8 map is so STUPID. Why in hell would I pick that crap up? Why in hell would I want to run maps lower than when my character is capable of, that is the point. Its just stupid mindless boring busywork. And it has probably cost this game more players and GGG more ultimate income than most people (especially GGG) realize.

In fact, let me just say: until the map drop rate becomes sustainable w/o heavy reliance on good RNG, I won't be investing anything into this game except time until I get sick enough of grunt work and wasted time and move on to another game.


You pick up T1/2 maps because 3 T1 maps make a T2 map, and 3 T2 maps make a T3 map, and you slowly build up good higher tier maps from low tier maps.

If you're not worried about levelling speed, why would you want at all to run higher tier maps? T2 ledge, cyclic with great mob density. T2 channel, "linear" map with excellent mob density. T4 arena, great mob density, 3 bosses so vaal if you get a twinned roll. T5 pier, linear map with good density. T6 strand, EXCELLENT linear map.

Also, you're not SUPPOSED to be able to sustain a red map pool. I don't even know WHY you would want to sustain a red map pool. Most of the people aiming to hit lvl100 would rather run T9 gorge for fast, safe clears with no risk of dying and losing half a days worth of exp.
Ok, I was just talking in theory. In actuality, I haven't gotten a map above t10, so I don't know where I'm at (but t10 didn't seem extremely difficult). I think most of my gear is top of the line, but my Voltaxic is only 5s/4L and my chest is a tabula, plus my chaos resist is pretty bad.

Maybe I have the wrong idea here, but my assumption is that the higher tier the map, the better the drops. No?

Good point about the lower tier maps. I hadn't been thinking about that (collecting them). Also, I would still rather they be same tier or above, ofc, and its just more needless busywork (which I guess I will bother with).
Last edited by taosk8r on Apr 30, 2016, 8:11:26 PM
"If my character is capable of doing tier 15...'

I have not heard of anyone who can clear tier 15 with all high risk modifiers-unique boss deals XX extra damage, monsters deal YY extra damage as fire/ice/lightning

Even those who can clear tier 15 without these modifiers do so with a bit of luck, not to forget that these people are normally wearing mirror worthy gears.

You have only two objectives in this game. To farm for currency and to gain experience. Of course most ideal would be to get both. That slightly better gear drop from tier 15s is hardly worth losing all your experience every time you play.

I would not consider your gear top of the line. Top of the line means a corrupted 6link chest with +1 to all gem levels to guarantee you enough damage to defeat tier 15 bosses, perfect ES roll gears to prevent you from being 1 shot KO from tier 14 bosses.

Your character would not even survive one hit from a tier 13 devourer with bonus elemental damage from map modifier.

Red maps are not meant for farming, they are meant for challenge...

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