[Feedback] RNG should leave (29.04.2016 UPDATE)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Tsokushin wrote:

how would improving RNG for people as a whole negatively affect you? You'd still have your gear, your builds, and the bosses to take down.

As I alluded to in my post on unique items, the main problem would be: I'd have my gear. I mean, obviously I want some gear, enough to make my build work, but getting best-in-slot gear is, in my eyes, winning. If I get every slot, there is nothing left to do, further play on the character is a waste of time, reroll. It is important to me to always have hope for a significant upgrade, and flooding me with goodies would diminish or destroy that hope by shrinking the potential upgrade space.

Well then that is an incredibly lopsided view. How did we arrive to the point where the gear is considered winning and not actually defeating all the tough bosses?

From nearly all the high end map groups I've been in, people are usually too afraid to attempt to tackle a boss because for some reason or other they either didn't feel strong enough to fight, considered the boss BS, or didn't want to die. Even now, people would rather level re-running gorge maps than actually attempting full completion of these higher maps. Or even getting level 100.

And this is what I was attempting to Highlight in all my posts. The gear should only be a means to an end. All the difficulty should be in actually fighting the bosses and the boss mechanics. Like Dark Souls series, attractive by the inherent difficulty and skill it takes to do well, not as it currently stands by just who happened to get lucky.

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madfellan wrote:

Why not just asking for everyone to get the same crap if you believe that RNG should leave ?
Like they can give us 1c for every hour we play and an exalt every two days (because they don`t drop too often and some people find more than others ). And a mirror every two months because i`ve never found one but there are people who have found at least 3 or 4.
Or what is the reason to pick fusings and use them to link sockets ? They can give us a 6L every two weeks and this way no one will be luckier than the rest. And we should be able to choose the mods we like because if we use currency then some will be luckier than others.

I am not a rich guy, i wasted a lot of fusings too, but i am smart enough to realize that without RNG, this game is crap. The only thing that keeps many people playing is that some objectives are hard to achieve. This league is already easy as ..., the last thing we need is even less RNG.

You're taking all of my posts out of context. I had said an entropy RNG system where after a given # of losses, you're guaranteed a win.

Furthermore, I didn't mention anything like what you said. All you have done is produced Hyperbole. I mentioned a system where high end bosses have guaranteed drop tables like Atziri. Maybe even dropping a new currency that can be exchanged for other types of currency depending on the amount you have, so that you're incrementally building up towards something, and only from upper end bosses so that when you defeat them you're actually getting something worthwhile.


And all in all, neither one of you posters has mentioned anything concerning the fact that some things are still unattainable via master Crafting (spell/elemental damage on necklaces, Chaos Resistance), or expanding upon the current master crafting system where it's within 2-3 tiers of RNG stats instead of a full 50-75% less. Or even the Vorici 4, 5, 6 sockets of a color crafting.

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raxleberne wrote:

Would be fastest way to destroy game, poe is all about rng
Funnily enough, any addition that removes part of rng from game is highly praised by playerbase (masters, voricis bench, vendor gems, and now cadiro)

what are you smoking? cadiro only offers meh items. I get better stuff from random rares in dried lake

ETA: and the rolls are always shitty.

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Tsokushin wrote:

I honestly don't see why they could shift the focus of difficulty from RNG in loot drops to actually having difficult boss fights and such. It gets to be annoying when you're not playing a faceroll, 1 shot boss build and actually need the upgrades to be able to do the content.

Reducing a lot of the RNG and giving people tools to more vastly explore builds would actually lend more longevity to this game, especially completionists that like to try to defeat every boss there is in the game and reach 100 before progressing with a new character.

100% agreed with you, if not removed RNG, at least reduce rng and in same time gave us GOOD and USEFUL TO EVERYONE recipes (not the same as vaal orb recipe), buff masters and remove useless mods (like life regen and similar).

At least people will start to ACTUALLY use orbs and not scared to be 100% broken all the time by default.

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Tsokushin wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Tsokushin wrote:

how would improving RNG for people as a whole negatively affect you? You'd still have your gear, your builds, and the bosses to take down.

As I alluded to in my post on unique items, the main problem would be: I'd have my gear. I mean, obviously I want some gear, enough to make my build work, but getting best-in-slot gear is, in my eyes, winning. If I get every slot, there is nothing left to do, further play on the character is a waste of time, reroll. It is important to me to always have hope for a significant upgrade, and flooding me with goodies would diminish or destroy that hope by shrinking the potential upgrade space.

Well then that is an incredibly lopsided view. How did we arrive to the point where the gear is considered winning and not actually defeating all the tough bosses?

From nearly all the high end map groups I've been in, people are usually too afraid to attempt to tackle a boss because for some reason or other they either didn't feel strong enough to fight, considered the boss BS, or didn't want to die. Even now, people would rather level re-running gorge maps than actually attempting full completion of these higher maps. Or even getting level 100.

And this is what I was attempting to Highlight in all my posts. The gear should only be a means to an end. All the difficulty should be in actually fighting the bosses and the boss mechanics. Like Dark Souls series, attractive by the inherent difficulty and skill it takes to do well, not as it currently stands by just who happened to get lucky.

It's not any more lopsided of a view than yours. In practice, it's a cycle: defeating enemies leads to better gear leads to more defeating enemies. The view that gear and levels are a means to the end of killing enemies doesn't seem inherently more (or less) valid than the view that enemies are a means to the end of better gear and increased levels.

However, I really don't see why the two lopsided views need to be in conflict. One sees victory in the toughest fights (with x different characters) as winning the game, the other looks at getting the best gear and max level (for x different characters) as winning the game. If these two (really three) things are tuned to happen at roughly the same time, then both views would "win" at roughly the same time. All portions of the cycle would cycle together, until the point when the cycle finally ends, with all components stopping as simultaneously as possible.

However, even this would not be compatible with instant-gratification BiS drops, so the "unique item problem" is still a problem.

+10000000

I tried to craft claw, used 4-5k alts and never got merc or tyr roll !?? Is that crafting or bs ? Now i can only imagine how many alts i need to hit merc or tyr roll and have a decent aug or regal.....

I think any random implementation on our IT systems is unfair.
This is because it is all pseudo random numbers, not real chaotic numbers because the hardware has only a limited number of states, narrowing it down drasticaly.

5L it in less than 20 fuses and 6L it with less than 50. :)
I 6L my chest piece with 25 fuses. Of course before that, i`ve spent like 2K fuses trying to 6L different items but sometimes the RNG turns in your favor, even if you believe you are unlucky.

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hobla wrote:

+10000000

I tried to craft claw, used 4-5k alts and never got merc or tyr roll !?? Is that crafting or bs ? Now i can only imagine how many alts i need to hit merc or tyr roll and have a decent aug or regal.....

Exactly this, PoE have no craft at all, only trading and nothing else. Even masters have 2 downsides: its very very expensive and still super random and masters have super weak low mods that they could craft. So, no craft.

The amount of variance in rng in this game is extreme. You can put all your efforts towards something for a year and never get it. I think it's too much and playing the same cheap but effective build every league gets old because it's the only build you get to play. But your mileage may vary. I'd like to see less extreme variance in results so crafting is feasible instead of laughable.

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TreeOfDead wrote:

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hobla wrote:

+10000000

I tried to craft claw, used 4-5k alts and never got merc or tyr roll !?? Is that crafting or bs ? Now i can only imagine how many alts i need to hit merc or tyr roll and have a decent aug or regal.....

Exactly this, PoE have no craft at all, only trading and nothing else. Even masters have 2 downsides: its very very expensive and still super random and masters have super weak low mods that they could craft. So, no craft.

What are you even complaining about?

"whaeaeae its to expensive"
"whaeaeae its to RNG"

The current meta of instant gratification in all the big titles has made players weak.

This game, like most ARPG is not based on RNG it is RNG. Take RNG away and there is no game.
Go back to your MMORPG and farm 2000 rat hides for a longsword.