Stop letting Inquisitor's Inevitable Judgement penetrate player's own resistance vs reflect

Hunted reflect mobs solo in different maps. checked at different resistance levels. with saffels etc. I am 100% certain this node does penetrate 10% of your own resistances when it coems to reflecting your own damage.

Mechanically I can see why, as it is pretty much same in concept with evasion, dodge etc, since reflect is you hitting your self and since it is never counted as a crit, every elemental damage dealt by inquisitor specced in Inevitable judgment on a reflect mob will thus penetrate 10% of your elemental resistances.

But seriously, for gameplay, this is just dumb and needs to be changed....

No, it doesn't. This is not how reflect works.

Reflect simply takes a portion of your dealed damage and reflect it back to you. Thats it.

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Astarte911 wrote:

No, it doesn't. This is not how reflect works.

Reflect simply takes a portion of your dealed damage and reflect it back to you. Thats it.

The damage is still dealt from a source and that source is you, if you had a hits cannot be evaded weapon craft for exmple, you will not be able to evade reflect from hits made by that weapon, now if you are inclined to continue, then please help me out with my math and show me where I am wrong.

Reflect is meant to be an issue that you take into account, by doing more damage you need to be careful of this. Also, as it is only rares and map mods I think reflect is in a good place now (not as murderous as in the past), otherwise chaos and totem builds would be even more prevalent, especially in hc leagues.

WAAAHHHH But but... i want to run around with the absolute maximum amount of damage without having to consider anything when it comes to my defenses because then i would be forced to actually think about things in my build besides damage.

I bet you also run around without a Bleed Flask on your character and bitch about how stupid and OP Corrupting Blood is too dont you?

The only thing inquisitor does in regards to reflect is you deal extra damage to the mobs so indeed you are going to receive a percentage of that extra damage from reflect. Inquisitor pretty much has no other downsides... You can potentially one shot god damn near everything in the game if you build for it (Im looking at you Crit Vaal RF) So ofcourse when you decided to go with this class something that MUST be taken into account is the one thing that can do you in... Reflect. If you are running Fire skills then Ruby, POF, Warlord's Mark, and VP leech is needed or atleast some combination. Lightning Topaz, POL, same and Cold Sapphire, POI, Same. Then you have Vinktars, Atziri flask and many other items that help deal with these things as well. USE THEM!

Not to mention now with physical spells in the game so prevalent you could always PAY ATTENTION and have one of those handy just for the mobs with Elemental Reflect. Theres so many ways to deal with reflect but why mess with any in game mechanics that are already in place for you to deal with such things when you can just come bitch about it on the forums instead?

No need to build for a mechanic you damn well know is out there that you must learn to deal with... Is that the motto around here theses days... If WE dont like then everyone should bitch about it till GGG cave and remove it? Sorry to break it to you but Reflect being removed or nerfed any further is going to happen at exactly the same time all the ascendancy points will be moved from the Lab so everyone can be given them with little to no effort.

With great power comes great responsibility...

You put up a lot of math but didn't put the basics. How about a screenshot of your character screen discharge skill with auras up? How many of each charge do you have? Do you use any curses? How much penetration do you have including the support gem?

I don't see anything in your calculation about the extra damage from penetration which doesn't show on your tooltip.

Reflect is just straight damage reflection. There is no penetration. The only thing that's related to what you used to hit is the damage type. Projectile Attack damage remains projectile attack damage, so evasion applies. Spell damage remains spell damage etc. But other than that it is straight damage with no additional modifiers applying. So it does not penetrate. You should be able to search for the dev response on this since penetration has been around for a long time.

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mark1030 wrote:

You put up a lot of math but didn't put the basics. How about a screenshot of your character screen discharge skill with auras up? How many of each charge do you have? Do you use any curses? How much penetration do you have including the support gem?

I don't see anything in your calculation about the extra damage from penetration which doesn't show on your tooltip.

Reflect is just straight damage reflection. There is no penetration. The only thing that's related to what you used to hit is the damage type. Projectile Attack damage remains projectile attack damage, so evasion applies. Spell damage remains spell damage etc. But other than that it is straight damage with no additional modifiers applying. So it does not penetrate. You should be able to search for the dev response on this since penetration has been around for a long time.

Lmao do you even read about my character or went thru my post in detail? I have addressed all those things you've asked in my post. First you are for some reason way off I am not talking about penetration gem, I am not even using the penetration gem, because that is the whole point of taking inevitable judgment.

I already gave you the max damage range with my multiplier included for the final damage. i Specifically stated there was no shock on either me or the mobs during the testing, it was a solo test, there were 0 auras, all of that have been stated. Only time curse used, was warlord's mark in the last example to confirm the math on double leech + ele reflect math which came out to be true.

I deal an absolute max of 96439 true damage on crit damage resistances are ignored, the mob WILL take that full damage.

When I hit, I am definitely penetrating 10% of my own resistances because I am taking more damage than what the maximum range hit on a reflect mob allows at my normal resistances, but if i factor in that 10% it works out. Now whether that is a bug, or intended I do not know.

Edit:
@Demz
And you...THIS post IS NOT ABOUT REMOVING REFLECT! When did I ever say ANYTHING about reflect removal in this post? I am specifically addressing in this post the inquisitor's Inevitable Judgment and how it affect the character, if it is a bug then it should be fixed, if it is intended then I am advocating for a change. Please stay on topic.

For some reason all you think I have not taken into the account now that I do more damage than before, but i honestly have no idea why you would think that. I penetrate all resistances on crit, that is 100% of the max range possible 96439 damage per hit, that is the final value, all buffs have already been factored in. Now on multiple occasions I am simply getting hit by reflect than what that maximum range allows unless i factor in a 10% penetration which would put the damage I am seeing in the correct place.

Dude you are NOT Penetrating your own resistances... You are penetrating the MOBS resistances.
Now are you going to take more reflect damage as a result of this? Ofcourse you are.
Reflect is reflecting a percentage of the damage YOU deal to the MOBs.

If you hit a mob for 1K and the mobs has 18% reflect then you will receive 180 damage.
If you hit a mob and penetrate its defenses with the hit will deal more damage to the mob therefore you will also receive more damage from the damage reflected. You are NOT penetrating the mobs defenses and then the reflected damage is in turn penetrating your defenses as well. Its does not work that way.
You are penetrating the mobs defenses dealing increased damage to the mob and then the 18% reflect is in turn more.

Iquisitor Ignores Enemy Resistances therefore you are always going to do incredible amounts of damage to the mob when you crit and pentrate 10% on non crit. So you MUST stack all the elemental resistance you can against the elemental damage you deal to protect yourself from reflect. You also will most likly need instant leech as well on top of these resistances. With a saffel+POL+the +1 lightning at witch+run this in an alphas you can easily achieve 85-86 lightning resistance (Depending on lvl 20 or 21 POL) and then pop a topaz on top of this when you hit a reflect pack and thats around 91-92% lightning resistance. If you want to take this even further then take in some Aura Effect nodes as well as the witch flask nodes and you can easily push this above 95%-97%+ Lightning resistance at which point reflect along with some kind of instant leech should only tickle you at this point. Hell if you push your lightning res this far you just about wont even need leech at this point you damn near immune to your reflected lighting.

Thats what you are not getting Reflect is there to force you to consider your defenses especially on high damage output builds like the one you are running. Theres nothing wrong here other than you need to build around reflect rather than reflect be changed. If your not running auras or anything else to protect yourself from the reflected damage then thats a problem on your end not Inquisitor. This is a problem ALL Crit builds end up having and its something all Crit builds have tools to deal with. And JUST putting a saffel's or JUST running POL isnt going to be enough with the extra damage and Penetration Inquisitor has going for it.

I brought up the penetration gem because it is nothing new. Penetration has been around for years. You act like this is some new mechanic. It's not. And reflect doesn't penetrate. The people who wrote the code have said so.

Edit: And I asked for clarification on your calculations because you started your math in the middle of the calculation and didn't say how you got there. When I asked about what kind and how many charges you have, it wasn't just for fun. Did you include the 4% damage multiplier per frenzy charge in your math? I wouldn't know. You didn't show that part of the math.

Edit: It appears I may have been wrong about penetration not applying to reflect. Could have sworn I saw a previous dev post about it not applying but can't find it.

just rechecked, it is working properly. I did not realize that mobs reflected over 14% damage, from the wiki the last patch notes read 14% so i assumed that was still the case for all mobs. Rerolled reflect maps and instead of blasphemy with warlords did self casting + duration to make sure the hit mobs were cursed. Based on the 4% life leech I did indeed overleech my damage to heal still after having taken out mind over matter, which can only occur if my resistances weren't penetrated, so the results from this are that the node does not affect reflected damage.
In the previous mirror map run what happen was most likely cuz blasphemy aoe was not as far as discharge, so I was blasting mobs that weren't cursed, hence leading me to think that I was taking more dmg than my resistances would allow.
Case Closed.