Stop making a new thread everyday you're just spamming the forum
Stop screaming into the gale on a deserted island. On second thought, go ahead, it's rather amusing.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
I keep reading replies and replies and replies, and i cant but notice that there are 5-6 people that keep coming back to post their toxic insults and ignorant comments about something they dont understand simply because they havent even read the opening post (or maybe they play/are dumb and they genuinely cant understand it or read it thats also a possibility). Because of that they keep posting irrelevant things that their mind perceives as relevant and in the process not only they litter the place with nonsense but also BUMP the thread and create new topics for discussion from other users that find them fascinating (usually same narrow-minded individuals from the white knight circle) or simply too funny and make fun of them via analogies and simple answers.
The opening post is there for you to read. Read it and if you still believe what we are asking is even in the slightest wrong or far fetched feel free to say why and also suggest ways in which this issue can be resolved, because if you think we like exchanging words with the ignorant and malevolent side of the forums you are way too naive. We dont find joy in bashing the game, if that was the case we wouldnt try with reason to provide feedback, we wouldnt have so many arguments, we wouldnt have come with so many suggestions, so much analysis etc. If this was just a hate-only labyrinth thread it would have died in the first week. But it isnt. The reason its kept alive is becasue there are legitimate issues regarding the matter that are all in the opening post for everyone to read.
I keep on seeing labyrinth is fine, labyrinth is good for the game, labyrinth should stay etc. And i have, no no, i need to once and for all resolve this. Yes i too believe that the labyrinth is fine, and its also good for the game since it offers alteratives for players to have fun with and ofcourse should stay (not even a single suggestion in the opening post says otherwise) suggesting anything else would be a huge sign of disrespect and slap on the face of the designers and devs and their time and work they put in that thing and if you read the OP you could see that, but unfortunately you have your heads where the sun does not shine. You are in such a fanatic and zealous state that you deny to see how legitimate the issues presented and the analysis are.
But how its possible to say lab is good for the game while you bash it too? Some - rather lacking - people might ask. Well i just mentioned above how it provides new grounds and ways for people to have fun, it is a very rewarding area and a totally different kind of playstyle and change of pace that some definetaly find fascinating and enjoyable.
But in the same time this new kind of playstyle is not for another certain category of players, same with this change of pace. Some dont care about the physical rewards and other simply cant have fun with something like that.
Thats why this thread is still here, to suggest ways that part of this content can be enjoyed from others as well. (at this point if you dont know or have understood what the opening post says its rather uselless to keep on reading). Not only this but all the suggestions keep the labyrinth intact, not only we want it in the game but ALL the rewards it offers now are kept there and even in some cases we suggest buffs to make those who run it feel even more rewarded.
The basic notion of all the suggestion is simple : give us an alternative way to somehow get ascendancy points without having to get through this obviously different and alienating playstyle, (reading the opening post to see the solid facts and stats presented there that support this truth - i would have said claim but its already a known solid fact) that not only goes against PoE's history of expansions but takes a step further and disses a part of the community just because. Never before character progression and especially customization was gated behind something "optional". And nontheless gated by something that we didnt sign for and neither supported the game for. Labyrinth aint masters nor atziri, its something else and its hurting the game. Make it optional with creating new ways of ascending and all its good, simple as that.
But there is more to the whole story about the labyrinth, recently i made an analysis how the labyrinth numbers only showcase and verify our part of the story that the actual people that run the lab for the fun and the loot is less than 20% of the playerbase of our realm (not counting garenas platforms around the world).
You mean to tell by quoting this that the lead designer would have absolutely no reason to just say "all things good" to just make his company seem more attractive/viable/active to the playerbase?
Ask yourself this then my friend. The ascendancy expansion is the only one that did not include a development process post, a successsful deployment post, statistics about the lab retention, an official answer to all the question and complaints , and even in 2 q&a ALL questions lab related were ignored. Tell me now, why a developer would do such a thing? (or not do in that case).
I get it you like the game and you dont approve of it being draged to shit because a single aspect of it is rather anoying to some, but a better judgement and less fanboism never hurt anyone. Now tell me again what truth are you talking about? Cause the only one i see is a development designer talking sweet words about his game, is there something between the lines i missed?
To save you the trouble, no there isnt. If numbers were good GGG would have kept their promise and showed more about lab statistics besides those shared for the two weeks of perandus that is on the opening thread.
Im sure you didnt take the time to read it all or even if you did you easily forget, so here it is to remind you :
Now if you are not completely brainwashed you can easily answer a simple question, why they still have not gave out any stats on the issue? Why not keep their promises?
Have you even bothered to look at labyrinth ladders at all? Have you even checked the HC lab ladders at all? Im sure you havent and probably havent payed any attentioned to the numbers even in the past.
And now the important stuff GGG wants to hide and ignores.
On 7/6/2016 only 4 days into the prophecy league, the total number of eligible players for the lab ladders were 6930 (ACROSS ALL LEAGUES hc/sc/prohc/prosc). Hear this now, the steam numbers for that period (meaning the actual total player number is WAY bigger) was 21k players.
3/7/2016 1 month into the prophecy league. Lab ladders 8.8k players. Steam charts 14.4k players.
Let see what yesterday's numbers where shall we (10/8/2016), 2months and 1 week into the league. 3026 total runners on the ladders. Peak number on steam charts for that day? 6.5k players.
If you dont suck at math and reason here are the next variables you have to take into account. From the ladders there are duplicates from the same account to different difficulties as well as different leagues. From those numbers around 20-25% based on their timing are not even in the slightest there for anything else than taking a subclass. And ofcourse cause im fair ill say that the numbers could be a bit higher cause some people are not eligible for them. So taking that into account we got around 1/3 up to 2/5 of the total population on the steam charts that was interested in running the labyrinth IF the steam numbers were real. But they are not arent they? Cause there are a lot of people also having the standalone client. Lets take the best possible scenario for lab retention and only say that the standalone client has exactly the same numbers with steam players for the days chosen.
So respectively thats : 7/6/16 - 42k active players, 7k of which like running the labyrinth. 16%.
3/7/16 - 28.8 active players, 8.8 lab runners. 30.5%
10/8/16 - 13k active players, 3k on lab ladders. 23%
Again have in mind that those are the best possible estimations for lab retention, without accounting those who do it just for the ascendancies (meaning actual numbers for players who ENJOY the lab are even lower). If that "estimation" bothers and somehow makes all this not believable enough, you instantly accept that the steam numbers depict the whole playerbase or that the steam players are more than the standalone client. (remember this before posting anything that may come out as ....)
Pretty underwhelming if you ask me. Another interesting part is that while the total numbers decline the lab lovers are somewhat more steady, meaning GGG actually lost people due to the lab. But again why do they not talk about it? Hmmm, ah yes, because everything is fine there is no issue whatsever and blah blah.
I still dont know why they act so stubborn, making alternatives or even decoupling ascendancies from the lab would literally hurt noone. Here we are now, 5months into the ascendancy expansion and still no word on anythiing remotely related to lab, the reasoning behind : lab has to much heat and might cause GGG to catch fire, GGG doenst give a fuck, GGG staff are ostriches, all of them in different degrees. No matter what it is, the issue would have been dead by long time if they had the balls to give a clear answer and not the dishonest bullshit they spread around from time to time.
So ill ask again, whats the truth you are talking about? Cause GGG's dishonesty is all over the place.
Because i see a lot of steam charts referance like it proves that the lab numbers are good or whatnot, while willingly closing your eyes to the real numbers that matter (WK at its finest cant argue with that)
After the bold part in the spoiler there all the answers you can get.
In the best possible scenario for the labyrinth, it caters to 30% of the player base (if every single one on the fullest of days does it just for the thrill/fun/rewards without taking into account those who do it for the ascendancies only) so that number is closer to 20%
In the worst case scenario for the labyrinth, only 8% of people seem to like it on average in order to run it multiple times.
So unless you are bound to make an utter fool of yourself stop using steam numbers in lab's favour, its rather humiliating.
So what is it finally? Are those who dont like the lab minority? Cause from what stats show the actual percentange of players that like running lab for the thrill and the rewards is a pitiful 8-20% of the total population (dont get it wrong im sure 99% of all the players run the lab to get the ascendancy points since they are forced "optional" must-do content). Should the rest suffer for the joy of the few dung beetles who like eating manure?
Remove them from the labyrinth or add alternative ways to ascend for the rest. Keep the labyrinth the same for those few who like it, every fucking one is happy. Its like they didnt learn from the PvP fiasco - pro-labyrinth numbers are directly comparable to pvp - and deciced not only to add experimental content but gate character progression behind it, fuck that. Would you like a differnt form of build defining/character progression tools be locked behind pvp? No? I guessed so, so why you are ok with this stinking pile of dung gating the current ones?
p.s. I support and like PvP but i can understand people not wanting to participate, after all its completely optional so they dont lose anything from neglecting it, contrary to the labyrinth.
A good number and actually fitting for a side area with such great loot (especially endgame lab and merciless) BUT this number only shows how little others care about it as a whole.
What i mean is that besides Ascendancies the labyrinth offers so many rewards and its a very nice place to farm, so why also gate such a thing behind it just to make people run it? Isnt the purpose of the whole expansion thing optional? Even in the recent interviews for AoW Chris said how they want the thing to be optional so that players dont miss anything if they dont want to do it, the same applied to Atziri, and the Masters. So why again this should be any different? Why cant you see simple truths and patterns?
And this leads us to the one question i asked so many times and never got answered in a way that can rebutall the purpose of the thread (meaning every answer given was simply agreeing with us, or way too vague/stupid to even considered one). How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience? Clear of ambiguities and holes that the bully brigade seems to like so much to abuse.
Benjamin Franklin once said "All mankind is divided into three classes: those that are immovable, those that are movable, and those that move."
A very intruguing sentiment - if i might say - that applies very well to the whole labyrinth "war". Everyone can make their own assumptions to what that means, so better explain as Franklin did. Immovable are those people who are simply too stuborn, selfish, narrow-minded and ignorant to see anything in a different way or from a different perspective. The movable are those kind of people that while open-minded, usually lack the critical thinking and are quite gullible. Lastly those who move are those who ACT, open minded, usually selfless people that want the change and lead the way.
Immovable category contains all the white knight or fanboys, they simply cant see anything past their nose. It also contains the extremists from the lab haters side that claim the labyrinth should removed alltogether. These people are not even worthy to talk with, its like talking to a stone (thats why i stopped responding to some individuals to be honest).
The movable category is the biggest from the three, here are the people who run the lab just to get the ascendancies, while also critising it. It also contains people that like running the labyrinth for the fun and the rewards but in the process they also see some fundamental flaws and issues with it and are not afraid to point them. Those are the people that the following part (as well as most of the thread) focuses on, cause those people are open-minded, can see how things are and can understand the why behind them, and due to their numbers can literally FORCE a change.
Lastly the moving category is those who actively want a change. Those who make the suggestions and propose ways to improve the whole ordeal.
And now comes the hard part. You know people who you are and where you belong. Maybe you dont know the extent of your power but believe me you HAVE IT. You can STOP doing the labyrinth if you dont like it, and i mean dont do it even once for the Ascendancies, SHOW GGG how bad it is. STOP supporting the game until fundamental issues with it (lab and the game as a whole) are fixed, do you want a new expansion or A BETTER GAMING EXPERIENCE?
Of course this will fall on deaf ears, unfortunately people cant understand or simply want to forget how their choices really affect all. Lets all have fun for one month and then for two wait for the next expansion right GGG and players? Cow milking must be really profitable once per expansion.
Honestly i feel exhausted after so long time, i have the tenacity to continue but its really disheartening for me to see so many and especially GGG ignoring or disrespecting the issues presented here as well as around the forums. There are just some things someone can do with this format and i believe ive done them all, i used reason and emotion, polite and harsh wording, funny as well as serious analogies to no avail.
Some will surely listen, hell they might even agree, but what i hope is for one or two to take action, spark the flame of change, that's all it takes after all. Well maybe its too late for that.
Seven days till patchnotes.
Regulator, you have my sincere thanks for your effort.
You made a well thought thread and spent a lot of effort to address this problem.
My personal feelings towards this question are a bit darker, as I believe GGG will not change trap gameplay even if most players stopped doing trials/lab. I believe it was designed for economy purposes: its design favours carry services and gives lab farmers a lot of advantages, GGG being happy with it that way.
So, not wanting or liking to play jump'n run in POE is a no end road: it either hurts game's progression if choosing not to do it - or burns one's gameplay experience to the point of quitting.
Thats why I stopped playing it altogether. Entered a total of 2 uber trials: Ripped the first one, then entered the exact same trial with the exact same toon and completed it - then quitted POE.
If/when GGG sees player's numbers going down, maybe then they'll understand.
Funny you mentioned "slap in the face" - I used the same expression in a thread I made some time ago. It was used to describe how I felt about trap gameplay. I was not in the best mood at the time, but it really is how I feel about how this kind of content was implemented.
So, keep lab as it is, make maps with 99% of the floor covered with traps - I couldn't care less. As long as they're optional and not tied to core aspects of the game!
So, keep lab as it is, make maps with 99% of the floor covered with traps - I couldn't care less. As long as they're optional and not tied to core aspects of the game!
The ignorance is real.
You rather "traps" be a part of maps, which is what most people spend their endgame time on, rather then in the lab, which you spend a total of 1 hour or so per character doing.
Logic is not strong with the lab hating group, is it?
So, keep lab as it is, make maps with 99% of the floor covered with traps - I couldn't care less. As long as they're optional and not tied to core aspects of the game!
The ignorance is real.
You rather "traps" be a part of maps, which is what most people spend their endgame time on, rather then in the lab, which you spend a total of 1 hour or so per character doing.
Logic is not strong with the lab hating group, is it?
I thought some players would be happy if there were a couple of maps that way since loving so much traps, but forgive me if I was wrong.
Let me repeat and rephrase, since I don't want to be misinterpreted: a couple maps, only for trap lovers!
I hope you can read and interpret it right this time even thought I though it was clear enough the first.
I also thought the time spent doing traps was not the issue here.
Its not ignorance but what can be intentionally misreading be?
Last edited by Norphade on Aug 24, 2016, 10:15:40 AM
So, keep lab as it is, make maps with 99% of the floor covered with traps - I couldn't care less. As long as they're optional and not tied to core aspects of the game!
The ignorance is real.
You rather "traps" be a part of maps, which is what most people spend their endgame time on, rather then in the lab, which you spend a total of 1 hour or so per character doing.
Logic is not strong with the lab hating group, is it?
I thought some players would be happy if there were a couple of maps that way since loving so much traps, but forgive me if I was wrong.
Let me repeat and rephrase, since I don't want to be misinterpreted: a couple maps, only for trap lovers!
I hope you can read and interpret it right this time even thought I though it was clear enough the first.
I also thought the time spent doing traps was not the issue here.
Its not ignorance but what can be intentionally misreading be?
You weren't clear enough first, you never indicated how many maps you wanted to be covered with traps, so I assumed you meant all because you love them so much.
Also if time spent doing the traps weren't the issue for you, then what is, the boss fight? Going out of your way to get a bonus for your character? These are in-line thoughts for players that want the reward, but don't care to spend the time to get it.
it's trolling. I hope someone of the bully brigade can respond to regulator's post. It would be very illuminating.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
I hope someone of the bully brigade can respond to regulator's post. It would be very illuminating.
I'm fairly sure he has me ignored so its pointless for me to respond to someone that won't see what I'm saying anyway. Not that I'm a member of the bully brigade, I would be willing to respond to his post, which I've done so in the past.
One thing to consider is that GGG isn't going to change the lab, we've come at a place in this "discussion" where you can either accept that and bitch while doing it for the reward or accept that the devs aren't going to change it. However OP, you, turtle, you know the brigade for shitposting lab hate topics aren't helping the cause, GGG knows whos "new" to the discussion and whos old to the discussion.
I welcome feedback from anyone that hasn't already given their 2 cents, but OP has given us $100 worth of feedback on a topic, turtle has given us at least $50 and you've given us what $20 worth, all multiple times what we bargained for TBH.
GGG doesn't care if you have to leave your bubble to do something you dont necessarily want to do to get a reward, they literally said this on the podcast. They don't care if there is decisive content in the game. So why on earth do you think, after 6+ months they are going to change it? I guess once there is nothing shown or stated in 2.4 and the league starts, this topic could die down, OP can cry in a corner realizing how much of his precious time hes wasted on this topic, I guess you and turtle can join him as well.
Enjoy your stay or enjoy your exit, good luck exile, your going to need it.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan
Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Last edited by goetzjam on Aug 24, 2016, 10:32:52 AM
And how many times have you given feedback goetzjam? How many times have you said the same things over and over again? How many times did you pretend to have insider info on GGG? How many times have you said that we should leave the game and stop posting? How many times have you drowned the very feedback you say you want to see?
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
Last edited by Pyrokar on Aug 24, 2016, 10:59:28 AM
