SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]
" But in the end, they are just suggestions. The one quoted is just one of many. And those others leave the lab mostly untouched. The first post is just a summary of all the suggestions that were made, no matter if people liked it or not. |
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" *facepalm* You have the memory of a goldfish, man. Scroll back and look at what I was quoting to see what we were actually talking about. (I don't have the patience to spoonfeed explanations to you anymore, sorry.) Wash your hands, Exile!
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Spoiler
I) Every character ascents at specific levels. For example 30-50-70 or 40-60-80 which are the levels anyway most people try the labs in each difficulty. Numbers ofcourse can be changed as GGG sees fit .
-Regulator This is the only suggestion that goes 100% in line with every other expansion GGG ever realeased. No gating, free for everyone (like jewel system in the tree) and gratuitous power creeping. Of course making it completely free means that ascension will be just a super OP upgrade to your character without having to do anything for it (like leveling but way more powerful) and will certainly make ascencion feel less rewarding. II) AC points are also (meaning labyrinth as it is still awards them) awarded from a standalone fight with Izaro. We fight him in 3 stages as it is now but without having to run the labyrinth and the trials (traps, golden doors, puzzles etc) before hand. He awards nothing but AC points, he drops no loot, there is no enchant option and no treasure chests/keys. You cannot party there (only solo). No way to cheese it -Regulator In that way AC are still gated but now behind the usual playstyle and not that of arcade games. It keeps the lore and the harder part of the whole labyrinth experience intact. III) AC points are also are rewarded after killing Malachai in each difficulty. Labyrinth remains the same. -Regulator Upsides of this suggestion include: Malachai now has a reward linked to him, gated behind the usual playstyle, its harder to get. Downside : Lore IV) Combine II and III. You must kill malachai to gain access to a standalone Izaro fight. Izaro rewards only AC points (no drops, no enchants, nothing at all), has 3 stages, and he is harder too kill/buffed. No party allowed inside Izaro fight. Labyrinth remains as it is now too -EnjoyTheJourney, Pyrokar, Perq, Turtledove Honestly the most balanced and win-win suggestion, with absolutely no downside but with many upsides. Malachai has a reward linked to him and Merciless one has a purpose. Lore stays almost 100% intact. Still gated but behind normal PoE (hack and slash/arpg) playstyle (no arcade game silliness). Its way harder to get now providing a challenge. V) Ascendancy Points could also (labyrinth stays as is) be bought from Cadiro with coins 1k normal - 2k cruel - 4k merciless -AllanonTB AC points become tradable and thus easier to get, soft gate behind currency/coin farming. Lore issues. Cadiro is going away so no coins after this league. Generally not a very well though idea. VI) New currency : Ascendancy Orb (i dont remember details on this one so ill suggest), rarity same as divines can drop only in 70+ maps, izaro has 100% chance to drop 1 (max) in mercilless only. It can work as 1 ascendancy point respec too. Labyrinthh stays as it is now. -Unknown Lore and labyrinth upsides stay intact. You can have early access to AC points or wait until 70+ maps and be lucky enought to get Ascendancy Orbs to drop. It gives another reward to lab runners that they can trade afterwards for more profit. Downsides include : the current labyrinth downsides, gating behind rng + arcade playstyle. A solid suggestion too. VII) Trials by combat. Labyrinth remains as it is now (with all the rewards). A new area is created. The new area might resemble fighting pits/gladiatorial arenas/ but can be anything really, from random wilderness, to a dungeon, to "cinematic" high society illegal fighting setting (like the race event descent champion crowd watching). Opponents would be exiles/warbands kind of enemies from the current pool or even better from a new extended one. There would be 3 stages of Izaro fight like now, before each stage you have to win in a battle versus those opponents. Each fight gets progressively more difficult than the previous, for examble in the first stage there might be 10exiles that not only fight against you but against each other, the second stage the exiles become warband members and they team up against you etc. -EnjoyTheJourney A refreshing and fun alternative. It fits the Emperor Izaro theme (loosely based on roman emperors and cretan king Minos) and not only keeps current lore intact but enhances it. Absolutely no downside since even the playstyle resembles that of the rest of the game (ARPG/hack&slash). A very entertaining concept indeed that seems to adress almost every issue. VIII)Account wide one time labyrinth completion after which other character gets ascendancy points as they complete entire acts. -johnce6 A wonderful idea. Remove the tedious ordeal once and for all. Very similar to number I and III. Upsides: Simple, one time trouble, feels natural to ascend after you chance difficulty levels. Downsides : You still have to run the lab and the trials at least once. IX)A prophecy chain - The Enlightened I, II, III. Completing the chain grants you 2 ascendancy points. Completing it more than four times for the 8 total ascendancy points grants you ascendancy respec points. Can only be activated after you hit lvl 75 and are in merciless. Common prophecy. You are not required to run the trials. Labyrinth also remains as it currently is with all its rewards. @Regulator thx for making this thread and investing your time. I like those solutions. The game heads into a wrong direction. Some may see it, some may not. Why a wrong direction? If it is too hard to make a new character and get to endgame, people will play less. Why is/was PoE that awesome? --> Builds, different builds, crazy builds Minutes to hours of build brain storming and in the end you ask yourself.... Is it worth it? Ascendancy points provide an awesome specialisation concerning builds. You have to earn those points. I don't like this content --> lab(traps). It's something you have to do and you can die to silly trap mechanics. I don´t like to start all over again. Why in the hell are there people in this thread that try to defend GGG's labyrinth, if the only thing we want is an alternative way to ascent? The only reason i would block such a thread is, if I do lab service and want people to not skip that content. But even if you do ... Ascendancy orb? farmable in merc lab? You would profit there. Or you just can't stand "people whining on the forums" and found a thread to post your "take it or leave it" attitude in. | |
" See this is where you are wrong. You view the game as heading in the wrong direction because of the "traps" So its nothing more then your opinion and some people complaining here that the "whole direction" of the game is apparently heading the wrong way. As for if its too hard to make a new character and get to endgame, it is easier now, then it has EVER been. This is due to a great number of changes that I can't be arsed to list here because its largely irrelevant to the thread, only that the additional time it takes to get the AC points on characters now should not be traded EVER for a quicker or easier solution (not that it should be traded or offered elsewhere anyway) The total time it takes to get the AC points on the first character is a bit longer, because of the trials needing to be done, but each subsequent character should only take 45-1 hour and thats only if you are a bad player. That amount of time, compared to the total amount of time you play a character is such a small investment of time, for you to bring it up as a factor in consideration goes to prove how little you know about the situation. Crazy builds, yeah I mean you can totally do crazy builds, yet most people will simply just play something that is proven to work. This has been the case since back in the Kripp days. If you want to do something a bit off the wall of course the option is there. Silly trap mechanics, its almost like learning the challenge and adapting your playstyle to do it is a crazy idea. Defending the lab because its a solid piece of content that doesn't need watered down because people are crying over it. It also doesn't need a massive amount of dev time to be wasted in order to address and issue you have with it. When it comes down to it Chris said it the best when he said its ok to have decisive content in the game that you don't necessarily want to do, but do it because of the rewards. Further indication of your lack of knowledge comes with the last post "the only reason i would" well the thing is you aren't trying to block OPs ideas, so of course you won't be able to come up with reasons, but there are dozens of reasons to not change the content in the game just because you are crying about it. Ascendancy has always really been about proving your worth to earn additional power, it fits the genre perfectly and while I acknowledge a couple of the alternatives are ok for meeting this expectation, most aren't and OP's goals seem to be clutter up the idea list with any idea anyone post instead of focusing on fine tuning 1-3 options to get a consensus on. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. | |
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I'm speaking here as a software engineer with over forty years of experience. As customers, we really only have a rear view mirror when it comes to PoE enhancements. Developers view their projects with a long range far reaching view into the future. The only consensus relevant to the decision GGG needs to make on how to make ascendancy points available outside the widely hated labyrinth is a consensus among the GGG developers that have been assigned to address the problem. An extremely important piece of information they have that we don't, is list of PoE potential future enhancements. I suspect the front runner solutions would involve things on that list. I'm not saying that the list in the OP is not useful just that no matter how complete we make the list, we still can't know what the choices really are.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired! Last edited by Turtledove on Jun 27, 2016, 5:08:23 PM
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" I am sorry but the first line isn't really relevant here. Even if you would have been game developper ... it would actually not matter much imho. You have no actual idea about that "widely", maybe people just "widely" don't give a damn about this actually, and maybe as said earlier, GGG are okay with some people not enjoying the lab but still wanting the points. You are right about the second part, but have you expected that none of the things in the list are on GGG's TODO ? I'm not saying that the ideas are all bad or anything, but if the lab works as intended, GGG probably don't want to spend a lot of resources on it anymore, but on other (more ?) useful things, additions to the game. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Jun 27, 2016, 6:22:03 PM
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If GGG and CW have half a brain in their heads, and I believe that they do, then the massive number of players that hate/dislike the lab should give them pause. As a game developer, surely he can see that going forward with this lab garbage is a bad mistake. Who makes a game successful? The players. Who makes a game fail and die? The players. The developers cannot hold on to players if their game is garbage, uninteresting, tedious, crappy or suddenly goes out of character into a side road that alienates a large portion of their players. This is the point. In order to make an arpg work as an arpg, it has to stay close to the original style of game play. You don't expect it to suddenly veer off into a different style of game altogether. If it does and the players hate the new direction, they will go looking for another game to play. It's quite simple, and I'm sure that GGG understands this concept. They cannot just dismiss the massive number of players who hate/dislike the lab and expect those players to keep on playing their game. I've seen many games go down the drain in my years of playing. I really hope that PoE doesn't turn out to be one of them. |
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The only problem with the lab is the roguelike nature of it.
PErmit players to resurect at mid point if they die by creating a landstone of resurection randomly placed usable only once. dying from bullshit lag is not fun much Poe Pvp experience https://youtu.be/Z6eg3aB_V1g?t=302 Last edited by Head_Less on Jun 27, 2016, 9:59:58 PM
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" "nothing more then YOUR opinion" "how little YOU know about the game" "YOUR lack of knowledge" those will haunt me in my dreams | |
" You meant to say divisive, not decisive. Christ was wrong on both counts, a fact I suspect he is coming to realize, though I haven't spoken with him recently. The following applies not just to PoE, by the way: 1. Any game with severely controversial material creates a poisonous atmosphere for the community, whose members resort to infighting rather than helping each other get through the new material. This is anathema for any free-to-play game, which rely heavily on word-of-mouth to generate new customers and additional revenue. 2. Designing content players don't want to play but play anyhow just to get the rewards changes the entire dynamic of a game, more fundamentally than even the arguments put forth about the new gameplay introduced by traps. Such designs have been profitable for some game creators in the past, I don't deny it! Zynga, for example. And Blizzard South. And many other low-quality game makers. This is classic MMORPG carrot-and-stick design. It is also very different from what PoE has been until now. It is impossible for me to stay silent when any aspect of the game follows this philosophy. Edit: Want to fix that typo... am about to fix it... nah. It's too hilarious to fix. Wash your hands, Exile! Last edited by gibbousmoon on Jun 28, 2016, 9:43:09 AM
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