SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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morbo wrote:
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Pyrokar wrote:
I really don't get all the fuss about the word gated. I didn't play WoW but i understand it was something that originated there. What's the deal?

I dunno, I never played WoW or any other MMORPG.

The Uber Lab is gated by luck, the first 6 points are not. Getting them is 100% deterministic and requires about 1 hour of gameplay in total. People who really hate the Lab, can just do all of it in one go when they overlevel. This way you save the most time.

I mean, playing endgame for 100 hours and not loot T14/15 maps, now that's gated... -_-

Anyway, I tried Uber at lvl 65 and almost got the fvker, just 1 pixel of health remained. Arrgh, I'm pissed!
Spoiler

Doing Uber with this build should be a cakewalk @75+. Pew pew crit bow ranged builds can clear whole screens of maps, melee right side of the tree can run Lab easier. I think its a fair deal (since total balance will never exist)


Gated in this context simply means that in order to get the ascendancy points the Labyrinth must be run. The ascendancy points are gated by the Labyrinth.

This is a normal definition of gate. Here's three online dictionaries that I accessed and copied definitions from.

Gate: any means of access or entrance:
The gate to stardom is talent. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gate?s=t

Gated: having or controlled by a gate <a gated entrance> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gated

Gate: A means of access: the gate to riches. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gate
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Turtledove wrote:
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morbo wrote:
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Pyrokar wrote:
I really don't get all the fuss about the word gated. I didn't play WoW but i understand it was something that originated there. What's the deal?

I dunno, I never played WoW or any other MMORPG.

The Uber Lab is gated by luck, the first 6 points are not. Getting them is 100% deterministic and requires about 1 hour of gameplay in total. People who really hate the Lab, can just do all of it in one go when they overlevel. This way you save the most time.

I mean, playing endgame for 100 hours and not loot T14/15 maps, now that's gated... -_-

Anyway, I tried Uber at lvl 65 and almost got the fvker, just 1 pixel of health remained. Arrgh, I'm pissed!
Spoiler

Doing Uber with this build should be a cakewalk @75+. Pew pew crit bow ranged builds can clear whole screens of maps, melee right side of the tree can run Lab easier. I think its a fair deal (since total balance will never exist)


Gated in this context simply means that in order to get the ascendancy points the Labyrinth must be run. The ascendancy points are gated by the Labyrinth.

This is a normal definition of gate. Here's three online dictionaries that I accessed and copied definitions from.

Gate: any means of access or entrance:
The gate to stardom is talent. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gate?s=t

Gated: having or controlled by a gate <a gated entrance> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gated

Gate: A means of access: the gate to riches. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gate


You mean its almost as if you need to prove your character is worthy of ascension before you can get ASCENDANCY points.

Fucking crazy logic there.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Pyrokar wrote:
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morbo wrote:
I'm not against reworking the Lab, so that players that want speed will need to invest skill, those who want safety will need to invest time. Or something similar.

But if I hear once more how Ascendancy points are "gated" and should be "free", I'm gona punch someone -_-

Merciless Lab done at level 58 (entered at 57), that is 10 levels below zone. 4.2k life with all self-found twink gear and a 5L. I even messed up the idols phase and Izaro was 100% buffed by idols.

SF common gear






Now you are gonna tell me how you "can't ascend at level 80"? And should be given free Asc points.

Get out! Out! Take their coats and throw them out!


I really don't get all the fuss about the word gated. I didn't play WoW but i understand it was something that originated there. What's the deal?

Also, just did all the uber lab trials first time in hardcore and got the relevant achievement. Again, it's not about the difficulty.
Imagine taking an entire year to beat a game. Imagine taking weeks to get reputation for gear, which was then used to gain access to better gear in Dungeons. Then after weeks of getting enough reputation you would unlock the harder version of that instance to get more gear. Also imagine having your crafting recipes gated behind that content that you had to do in order to get better gear, then spending weeks farming for recipe materials to eventually craft a required piece of gear just to have enough stats to start the first raid.

The list goes on, essentially progressing in World of Warcraft would take weeks and months, and youd gradually progress throughout the entire expansion to what would eventually lead up to a final boss.

What i described was Burning Crusade too, not the content after it because they made progressing in the game a joke after BC.

Coined as a video game term the word "gated" isnt used how you guys are trying to use it when youre describing content that can take, at max, an hour to do.

Edit- And i should also mention, requiring to do things in order to progress. You cant just skip content and progress on like you can here, and you certainly cant pay your way through it like you can in path of exile either. Hints actual gating because theres no way through it without the key (aka doing whats required in order to progress).

IF Blizzard does legacy Vanilla and Burning Crusade servers i highly suggest trying them out to see what gating truly means, of course that doesnt even compare to Everquest gating.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!

Labyrinth salt farm miner.

"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Jun 22, 2016, 12:05:02 PM
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goetzjam wrote:


You mean its almost as if you need to prove your character is worthy of ascension before you can get ASCENDANCY points.

Fucking crazy logic there.


In a role playing game, yes this is the way it always works. I don't know why that is "fucking crazy"?
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Turtledove wrote:
Gated in this context simply means that in order to get the ascendancy points the Labyrinth must be run. The ascendancy points are gated by the Labyrinth.

Ok, but then Merciless is gated by Cruel. And playing maps is gated by the whole levelling process, which takes ~10-15 hours.

People can stomach 15 hours of 3X the same identical quest content for every character, but can not do less than 1 hour of Lab? Asc points get you build-defining features, and still players are not motivated by this reward?

Giving free Asc points for defeating Malachai or similar, makes no sense. The Lab and points are tied together, by lore and by design - investing time into obtaining power in parallel to regular content. If GGG was to "set free scendancy points", they might as well remove the Lab completely.
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness
Just wait until you're op as hell at like 75 and go back and do the trials, all three acendacies in like 1 hr tops. I hate lab too but thats what I do to minimize the painful experiance.

And if 75 is too soon fuck it try 85. You dont need these acendacies to be OP. ppl were beating uber long before them. So I wouldnt sweat it until ready. And by ready i mean face roll place to minimize your exposure to unpleasantness.

Last ladder I think I ascended normal/cruel/merc back to back to back at 76 with 6000 life and over 50K ice nova dps. was a complete joke. This one well not playing so much too busy here at work but i'd do the same thing again.
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on Jun 22, 2016, 1:36:10 PM
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morbo wrote:
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Turtledove wrote:
Gated in this context simply means that in order to get the ascendancy points the Labyrinth must be run. The ascendancy points are gated by the Labyrinth.

Ok, but then Merciless is gated by Cruel. And playing maps is gated by the whole levelling process, which takes ~10-15 hours.

People can stomach 15 hours of 3X the same identical quest content for every character, but can not do less than 1 hour of Lab? Asc points get you build-defining features, and still players are not motivated by this reward?

Giving free Asc points for defeating Malachai or similar, makes no sense. The Lab and points are tied together, by lore and by design - investing time into obtaining power in parallel to regular content. If GGG was to "set free scendancy points", they might as well remove the Lab completely.


Motivation is not the issue. The problem is that for some people the gameplay is fundamental to how people view/evaluate/like a game. Regular PoE game play is great. Labyrinth gameplay is boring tedious and not fun for many people.

In the OP are many different alternatives. If you can think of a new one then feel free to propose it. The lab and points are tied together is true. The original design of each was separate and not tied to together. Removing the labyrinth completely would be satisfactory to me. It would seem unfair though to the minority(?) of people that enjoy the labyrinth. Although you could make a short paragraph post proposing it be added to the OP. I proposed removing the ascendancy points from the game but Regulator didn't like that one and so didn't include it in the OP.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Aim_Deep wrote:
Just wait until you're op as hell at like 75 and go back and do the trials, all three acendacies in like 1 hr tops. I hate lab too but thats what I do to minimize the painful experiance.

And if 75 is too soon fuck it try 85. You dont need these acendacies to be OP. ppl were beating uber long before them. So I wouldnt sweat it until ready. And by ready i mean face roll place to minimize your exposure to unpleasantness.

Last ladder I think I ascended normal/cruel/merc back to back to back at 76 with 6000 life and over 50K ice nova dps. was a complete joke. This one well not playing so much too busy here at work but i'd do the same thing again.


I agree. At one point I was trying to do labyrinth closer to proper level in order to have fun with the Izarro content. It just wasn't worth it. The chance of being killed by Izarro and then having to redo all that horrible boring trap gameplay over again was just not worth it. So now I'm so way over leveled that Izarro is dead a moment after the elevator stops. It is really sad to me that I'm missing out on what looks to be a fun boss fight. But it is well worth giving up on the fun boss fight to minimize my exposure to unpleasantness as Aim_Deep says.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
The ascendancy points are GATED behind vomit inducing crap.

G A T E D

Spoiler
:) GATED
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morbo wrote:

People can stomach 15 hours of 3X the same identical quest content for every character, but can not do less than 1 hour of Lab? Asc points get you build-defining features, and still players are not motivated by this reward?


YES.

YES YES YES YES YES.

You hit the nail on the head.

I would rather be compelled to grind 15 hours of fun content for every new character in order to get the Ascendancy points than do 1.5 hours (takes me at least that long to do three labs, assuming I don't die in one of them) of content which is a poor match for PoE's network-connected nature and control scheme, and therefore makes me grit my teeth the entire 1.5 hours.

Why, you ask? Beause PoE is NOT my job. It is my fun time. I care about the JOURNEY, not the destination.

I am positive that I am not alone.

You could give me 5 Ascendancy points and 30 Passive points at the end of a successful Lab run, and it wouldn't magically fix the lab's problems, or even make it the tiniest bit more fun. It would make me more likely to do it, sure. But that's not remotely the same as fixing its problems.

And just to take my own advice, I'll clarify that I am pointing to objection #1 and objection #3 below (taken from my earlier post).

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gibbousmoon wrote:
1. Objections to the trap gameplay per se. If you think traps of this nature don't belong in PoE because it is too harsh a departure from the existing gameplay, if you think traps of this nature don't belong in any game that is a D2 successor, if you think traps of this nature don't belong in any game subject to network hiccups, or if you think traps of this nature don't belong with a mouse+keyboard control scheme, your objection probably fits in this category.

2. Objections to the non-optional nature of the content. If you think AC points make this content a de facto mandatory part of the game, and you think it should be optional to the same extent other non-expansion additions to the game are optional, your objection probably fits in this category.

3. Objections to the reward structure. If you run the labyrinth despite hating it, believe that content should be intrinsically fun, and compare the additional rewards added to the lab by GGG to the higher salaries enjoyed by garbage collectors working in large cities, your objection probably fits in this category.

4. Objections to GGG's approach and implementation. If you think a divided, toxic community is an unhealthy community, and that the labyrinth as it is currently implemented is causing exactly that, your objection probably fits in this category.

5. Objection to the difficulty of the traps and/or labyrinth. If you think the traps and/or Izaro encounters are too difficult and should be nerfed, your objection probably fits in this category. (Very few posters fit into this category, but you'll understand why I included it in a moment.)
Wash your hands, Exile!
Last edited by gibbousmoon on Jun 23, 2016, 12:04:42 AM

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