Labyrinth sucks

"

Char1983 wrote:

Everything you do to PoE will alienate some users.

This kind of extrapolation seems to be a pretty common response to those of us who are alienated by the labyrinth. You don't like the labyrinth? Well, there are people who didn't like having to do Dominus, abomination Piety, or Malachai, so you're no different. Or, you don't like the labyrinth? --- well, that means you're just too closed-minded to accept any attempt to expand genres in a computer game, and so on. Why not stick to the many (and IMHO entirely legitimate) complaints about the labyrinth in PoE?

"

As for things that you can die to that you cannot destroy - that has been in the game for ages. Burning ground, desecrated ground, anyone?

That's a good point --- I do recall the endless, whining threads created here and elsewhere on how much players hated getting killed by burning and desecrated grounds in PoE. ;)

 Yes, GGG really blew it when they brainstormed (brain farted) Labyrinth. It actually sucks and blows at the same time.

 My take on this is:
1. Concept is good where we can't just portal out at anytime to heal up.
2. I'm ok with overall map layouts, I don't get lost and frustrated as some seem to do.
3. Side zones required to get a gold key are just needless tedious busy work.
    I don't have any load wait delay problems as I have an SSD but with regular hard drive
    the side zone loading delays are frustrating waits.
4. Gold key zones are just bad run around linear maps to grab a gold key so we can go back and
    unlock the gold door just to advance. Side zone is not an open map and gold key chest
    is always near the end and not randomly placed in the zone.
    (this is actually an instance where I would like more random map layout and chest location)
5. I'm ok with traps (pretty meh on them) but after I'm overleveled enough then they are a bore.
    (what was that, oh, a spike tried to stab me... na... it was just a harmless prick.)
6. Izaro as uber boss is vary bad design. What's that... I must be 10+ levels above lab level
    and then Izaro is an easy kill. Ok, but then zone mobs are a yawn face roll. It would be
    much better if zone content = exile level and then tweak Izaro to be a level appropriate
    tough boss. Not the way it is now where if you try to do the lab level with a build of the
    same level Izaro will one-shot you too easily. That is not clever boss battle designing, it's
    just another wrong thinking and example of forcing us to wait until we are 10+ levels above
    the 33, 55, or 68 lab level before running it. Once we get 12+ levels above then even Izaro
    becomes easy (too easy). Lab difficulty level needs to equal our exile level.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

 6. Izaro as uber boss is vary bad design. What's that... I must be 10+ levels above lab level
    and then Izaro is an easy kill. Ok, but then zone mobs are a yawn face roll. It would be
    much better if zone content = exile level and then tweak Izaro to be a level appropriate
    tough boss. Not the way it is now where if you try to do the lab level with a build of the
    same level Izaro will one-shot you too easily. That is not clever boss battle designing, it's
    just another wrong thinking and example of forcing us to wait until we are 10+ levels above
    the 33, 55, or 68 lab level before running it. Once we get 12+ levels above then even Izaro
    becomes easy (too easy). Lab difficulty level needs to equal our exile level.

The only ways Izaro can one hit you (at least without the buffs) are telegraphed. Careful play should allow you to kill him on level. Pay attention to animations and you'll be fine.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

The only ways Izaro can one hit you (at least without the buffs) are telegraphed. Careful play should allow you to kill him on level. Pay attention to animations and you'll be fine.

 You miss the whole point of my #6. It is not about a specific boss and whether or not he telegraphs his attacks so I have time to dodge them. It is specifically about the fact that GGG will have the end boss set for a zone much higher than is level appropriate. In the case of Laybrinth the end of zone boss is Izaro and in order to defeat him (not counting a perfect build that has T1 gear) you need to be at 10 levels or higher above the lab zone level. That's my complaint (and I'm not alone on this criticism) is that GGG instead of making Izaro have better AI or better attacks to make the battle harder all they do is raise his damage so in order to avoid being one-shot we must wait until we are about 10 levels about the lab zone level. I've played Torchlight 2 and the end of zone bosses are no pushovers (most of them) and I've played with 2 friends and some boss battles took 10 to 15 minutes to defeat the boss. We'd have to move fast and be at our best playing focus to not die (I love my healing bot) but I never felt the devs were forcing my build to be overleveled to not get one-shotted. The TL2 boss battles are a blast to team play (there's no fear of lag death) and GGG could sure learn a thing or 2 about "fun to play" but tough boss battles (now watch for the OMG... are you fuckin crazy... TL2 was too easy troll post replies to come).

I used to whining about lab 1 months ago, but now things is different.
First, lab give me more actions even than uber or the core - in some cases they are more rng than lab. Big punishment, no repeat mechanics - when u get through traps- and so on.
Secondly, i died 12 times in my first char this league to complete merc lab. 4 or 5 times in my LL champion - the next char. And finally i cleared merc lab with 0 deaths with all my last 2 chars at lvl 70 and they are all lowlife. U need a little practice to become better. Thats all
/Learn when to fight, when to retreat when fighting with izaro. Learn about his mechanics. His biggest threat is is replacement - which move u into trap - he used after his first big hit.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

It is specifically about the fact that GGG will have the end boss set for a zone much higher than is level appropriate. In the case of Laybrinth the end of zone boss is Izaro and in order to defeat him (not counting a perfect build that has T1 gear) you need to be at 10 levels or higher above the lab zone level.

I find Malachai worse in that aspect (although Izaro can fuck you with some hard to counter buffs). Also, I've done it almost at the proper level with a non meta build (Dodge Raider).

"

Arrowneous wrote:

 Yes, GGG really blew it when they brainstormed (brain farted) Labyrinth. It actually sucks and blows at the same time.

 My take on this is:
1. Concept is good where we can't just portal out at anytime to heal up.
2. I'm ok with overall map layouts, I don't get lost and frustrated as some seem to do.
3. Side zones required to get a gold key are just needless tedious busy work.
    I don't have any load wait delay problems as I have an SSD but with regular hard drive
    the side zone loading delays are frustrating waits.
4. Gold key zones are just bad run around linear maps to grab a gold key so we can go back and
    unlock the gold door just to advance. Side zone is not an open map and gold key chest
    is always near the end and not randomly placed in the zone.
    (this is actually an instance where I would like more random map layout and chest location)
5. I'm ok with traps (pretty meh on them) but after I'm overleveled enough then they are a bore.
    (what was that, oh, a spike tried to stab me... na... it was just a harmless prick.)
6. Izaro as uber boss is vary bad design. What's that... I must be 10+ levels above lab level
    and then Izaro is an easy kill.

Yep, you right. But worst part "enhancement" 400 enhs and its 100% fully random, awesome shitty system, nothing new from GGG.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

Then I remember that you have to play the game three times before maps. And that you can fight a twinned Malachai with extra projectiles.

The world is an illusion, exile.

PS: You don't get to decide what is allowed in ARPGs. Classic counterexample: Nox. Feel free to discuss how the whole thing sucks, though.

PS2: if you want an explanation, here it is: magic.

Every time I hit a lag spike in general I just think, "A wizard did it." And an OP wizard at that, lvl20 Spikes Of Lag puts temp chains to shame.

"

dickhole_mcghee wrote:

"

NeroNoah wrote:

Then I remember that you have to play the game three times before maps. And that you can fight a twinned Malachai with extra projectiles.

The world is an illusion, exile.

PS: You don't get to decide what is allowed in ARPGs. Classic counterexample: Nox. Feel free to discuss how the whole thing sucks, though.

PS2: if you want an explanation, here it is: magic.

Every time I hit a lag spike in general I just think, "A wizard did it." And an OP wizard at that, lvl20 Spikes Of Lag puts temp chains to shame.

Hahaha, it's all magic

Adding my two cents:

Cent #1: Labyrinth sucks. Everything about it.

Cent #2: I do not like green eggs and ham. And also, Labyrinth sucks.

Thank you for your time.