You should not be playing video games if you can't afford a Premuim stash... Period.

Like others will tell you that just because some players don't spend a lot of money on this game doesn't mean that they are just a waste of your time being around them. It is that big I little you attitude that drives people away from you.

I am fully aware that you think that everyone should spend hundreds of dollars on this game. For those that don't they just aren't worth your time.

But there is a big news flash for you. Some of the ones here that have been playing since day one are the ones that you won't spend any time with. Some of the uniques that are in the game came from others here. Some even designed the special cards that we use. So just because they don't spend the same amount of money on the game as you do and spend it the exact same way then that doesn't mean that they aren't worth your time.

Without all of the little people weren't here playing then you and the others like you wouldn't have a game to play.

Maybe there is something that you haven't learned yet. How little things add up quickly. So while others are buying other things other than premium stash tabs. Their amount of money goes towards the further development of this game.

"

Schakar wrote:

It's not about "can you afford it or not". It's about the philosopy behind the hole pay2win shit! Winning a game/sport should be 100% based on skill ... NOT money!

De facto if are unskilled there should be NO WAY that you have any way to get any advantage! Pay2win is the same level as doping and should be ILLEGAL!

So according to your argument here then all these below are "p2w" (and have been in the game essentially since release)

-extra stash tabs
-premium stash tabs before update (so i know whats in the tab)
-extra character slots
-guild stash tabs

etc etc.

What's the difference exactly? There is none. Pay for convenience goods have been here forever and do not give any real advantage outside of just that, convenience. No game feature is gated behind paying anything here...

Essentially, put up or shutup. There is really nothing to complain about.

"

joebagz wrote:

So according to your argument here then all these below are "p2w" (and have been in the game essentially since release)

-extra stash tabs
-premium stash tabs before update (so i know whats in the tab)
-extra character slots
-guild stash tabs

etc etc.

What's the difference exactly? There is none. Pay for convenience goods have been here forever and do not give any real advantage outside of just that, convenience. No game feature is gated behind paying anything here...

Essentially, put up or shutup. There is really nothing to complain about.

Extra tabs are in a bit of grey area; I'll give you that. But they don't fundamentally allow you to do anything you couldn't do without them. Same for premium tabs; they're just labels. Cosmetic. Character slots are just so you don't need another account. I could see someone arguing that this gives some advantage, but again, it doesn't let you do anything you couldn't before. This is where your "convenience" argument holds weight. These things make it a little more convenient, but don't actually give any added abilities.

I should mention, before I proceed, that other people claim that auction houses are also just convenience. You can just buy the item instead of having to farm for it. But either way, you could theoretically get the item. I'm not trying to say that auction houses are the same thing as this; I'm just saying that P2W can be seen on a continuum, where certain things, like Pay2Trade, might be seen by some as worse than others.

Okay, now: As long as the normal trade mechanisms continue to still work, then I can see the argument that the tab listing is just convenience, and true, maybe nothing to get all upset about. So I'm with you in that case.

The problem is that there are legitimate reasons to worry that those other routes may not continue to function for long. We are in the realm of speculation here either way, with some suggesting that the 3rd party sites will always index the forums because it brings added traffic to their sites, and others asserting that they will in no way want to continue doing that once pretty much everyone is on the tab system,because the forum indexing is rather a pain in their collective ass. ExileTools has been the first to say that they will not index the forums anymore.

We do not know which way it will go in the end. Even the indexers themselves can't forsee the future like that. The point is that GGG is opening an avenue that might make the tab trading mandatory, and with only a mild assurance that there should be more phases of trading modifications coming somewhere in the future. In the mean time, it's taken three years to get this first part, and if it takes another three years to get Phase 2 ... you get the idea.

Now, if in fact it does become difficult or impossible to feasibly sell items without using premium tabs, then we will suddenly be faced with a situation where they really do let players do something that they *cannot do otherwise* ... it will not be a matter of convenience, but of necessity.

This eventuality is what must be prevented, and it is only due to GGG's patch and lack of clarity on their future plans that we are concerned this might happen. This would create an actual Pay2Win situation. Maybe it'll all be fine ... but we can't tell that yet. GGG has done pretty well so far, and so I have some hope that they'll handle things properly with this as well.

Hopefully that helps clarify our perspective. Solwitch will probably never understand, but others of us seem more willing to discuss and see things from others' perspectives. :)


-VG-

TBC in-game, VG. I refuse to post any further in a solwitch thread.

.....

i have bought several extra tabs...don't need premium thanks though for the update on who should be playin video games...i have an excellent memory i don't need labels

Can't believe so many people got baited by this troll. XD

I'd get some if they were on sale right now