Let me dispel some of your illusions about auction houses.

"
Arrowneous wrote:
Spoiler
What is needed is a way to buy an item without the physical need to engage the seller in Trade Chat. The current requirement that necessitates having the seller be on-line and directly interact with the buyer to make the sale is the whole reason Trade Chat has failed. With a whole world of PoE players it is highly likely that when I find an item I want to buy that the seller is no where to be found. Even if the seller is on-line playing PoE I still have to get the seller to stop and come into chat so that the trade can be executed.

The solution is some form of asynchronous trade where we each have our own personal trade stash in our hideout (a second stash exclusively used for selling and also to hold purchased items). With this we can post our wares (items for sale) and retrieve our items bought (in a remove only tab) and move them to our regular stash. If GGG codes it correctly then this would be the easy way to buy better gear:

1. I use a 3rd party trade site to find the item.
2. I click on a special link that takes my current build I'm playing and teleports it to
    the sellers hideout (of course I must be running PoE).
3. I open up the trade stash and can see all items that seller has for sale along with the
    prices. There will also be a button for each item so that I can private message the
    seller if I want to try and barter the price down. The seller's name will show at the
    top of the "For Sale" stash tabs and be green if on-line and red if off-line so I can
    immediately tell if the seller is available to trade chat with.
4. If I want to immediately buy I can press a "buy now" button for that item and the normal
    trade window will open up with that item in the top and I place my currency in the
    bottom and press the "ok" button to buy it.
5. The item purchased goes into my own trade stash and I can use the waypoint to go to my
    own hideout, open my trade stash and find a new read only tab there with the item(s)
    I just bought. The seller will be notified upon next login (or be pm'ed immediately
    if on-line when a sale is made. The seller goes to his/her hideout, open up the trade
    stash, and retrieves the currency from their remove only tab.
6. The sale is easy to do, is not a huge global AH, and is done in such a way to make it
    feel that Wraeclast is a dynamic environment full of exiles. A great bonus to this is
    that we get to visit other players hideouts often and can see if/how the place
    has been decorated (that alone should be a big incentive for buying hideout decor).
It should be plainly obvious that GGG and most of us don't want a auction house the likes of original D3 or what WOW has (never played it). So you shouldn't be asking for 1-click buying. It's never going to happen.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Feb 4, 2016, 3:07:07 PM
You guys are focused too much on the automated transaction process of the AH and it's potential negative factors and not analyzing enough the other factors that actual produce the environment of massive amounts of currency brought to market and subsequent inflation which results in relative devaluing of average items to rarer tiers.

Fast transactions aren't required for that to happen. What we have now in poe.trade/third party/bots has fast enough transactions for this to happen. Two factors are working against this actually occurring though - small percent of population actually reaching endgame and ,I'm assuming, not everyone uses poe.trade and third party tools.

I know it's easy to think that AH and automation brings down the economy but the conditions for inflation and devaluation have to already exist for an AH to facilitate that process.


PS: To be perfectly clear in case it isn't obvious I'm against an AH and I'm actually against GGG making trade any easier than it is right now. If/when they introduce easier in game trade that close to everyone would end up using I'm really worried it will just turn PoE into a WoW like 'play the money game or lose' game, as one poster put it.
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
So you shouldn't be asking for 1-click buying. It's never going to happen.

 What? Where in my discussion of trade stash is there a "1-click" buy like the old D3 auction house? I still have to go to a 3rd party trade site, search there for an item to buy, then take my in-game exile to the sellers hideout (with the exact amount of currency the seller wants in my inventory), go over and open up the "Trade Stash", find the item I want (remember a seller can have many items for sale and have many "For Sale" tabs to browse through), then I can click the "Buy Now" button which opens up the normal trade window with that item in the top, then I must open up my inventory and transfer the exact amount of currency over into the trade window, and then when I have done all that the trade window's "OK" button will go from grayed out to active so I can click it and the transaction is concluded.

 This is a considerable number of steps I must take to buy an item and is most definitely not a "1-click" buyout of an item. I'm not sure how you see this as a 1-click instant buy. The important aspect of this is that the seller need not be on-line if I am ok with the price and don't need/want to barter the price down. And as a bonus GGG should be able to sell a huge amount of hideout decorations as we would be routinely visiting other players hideouts and want to see how that player has pimped it.
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
You guys are focused too much on the automated transaction process of the AH and it's potential negative factors and not analyzing enough the other factors that actual produce the environment of massive amounts of currency brought to market and subsequent inflation which results in relative devaluing of average items to rarer tiers.

Fast transactions aren't required for that to happen. What we have now in poe.trade/third party/bots has fast enough transactions for this to happen. Two factors are working against this actually occurring though - small percent of population actually reaching endgame and ,I'm assuming, not everyone uses poe.trade and third party tools.

I know it's easy to think that AH and automation brings down the economy but the conditions for inflation and devaluation have to already exist for an AH to facilitate that process.


PS: To be perfectly clear in case it isn't obvious I'm against an AH and I'm actually against GGG making trade any easier than it is right now. If/when they introduce easier in game trade that close to everyone would end up using I'm really worried it will just turn PoE into a WoW like 'play the money game or lose' game, as one poster put it.

 My suggested hideout "Trade Stash" does not make the process super fast and lead to a huge quantity of commodity flippers causing massive inflation. Inflation is inevitable in any arpg as we farm more and more currency from our daily grinding. Not mandating that the seller be present to buy the item for sale doesn't make for rampant inflation. If bots can be coded to automate this then it would be necessary for GGG to use some form of captcha that most websites are required to use to block bots.

 I think we're all in agreement that the Auction House in D3 ruined it and Blizzard devs also came to that conclusion (too late) and removed it. So NO, any AH in PoE and any 1-click super easy buying of PoE gear is bad (GGG also agrees on this) and will never be wanted here.
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070
"
Arrowneous wrote:
The important aspect of this is that the seller need not be on-line if I am ok with the price and don't need/want to barter the price down.
Chris has specifically mentioned the idea of player shops in hideouts; he said they were planning for it before they realized it is something they do not want in their game. Source

So yeah, not gonna happen.

I think it was the correct move, because increasing the (already steep) opportunity cost for haggling will only result in a more passive approach to accepting seller prices, and foster a more "must underbid everyone" culture in seller pricing.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Feb 4, 2016, 3:59:27 PM
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
So you shouldn't be asking for 1-click buying. It's never going to happen.



Why?

People who want an easy way to buy and sell items dont care if the flippers method of manipulating the current system is destroyed by an AH. And why should they.

If the drops rates are based on every one having access to trading than every-one should have access to trading its not rocket science and there is no logical argument against that.

The only real point of discussion is whether or not trading is fairly implemented so that all players reasonably can access it.

In my tiny opinion fixed price player shops where the item and the price are locked for what ever time period (like it the real world shops) is the best solution.
"Blue warrior shot the food"
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
You guys are focused too much on the automated transaction process of the AH and it's potential negative factors and not analyzing enough the other factors that actual produce the environment of massive amounts of currency brought to market and subsequent inflation which results in relative devaluing of average items to rarer tiers.

Fast transactions aren't required for that to happen. What we have now in poe.trade/third party/bots has fast enough transactions for this to happen. Two factors are working against this actually occurring though - small percent of population actually reaching endgame and ,I'm assuming, not everyone uses poe.trade and third party tools.

I know it's easy to think that AH and automation brings down the economy but the conditions for inflation and devaluation have to already exist for an AH to facilitate that process.


PS: To be perfectly clear in case it isn't obvious I'm against an AH and I'm actually against GGG making trade any easier than it is right now. If/when they introduce easier in game trade that close to everyone would end up using I'm really worried it will just turn PoE into a WoW like 'play the money game or lose' game, as one poster put it.



where automation instant buyout makes a difference is in flipping and market control. The kind of flipping power it would take a team of 100 coordinated people 2 weeks to achieve right now will be outmatched by 1 dude with bots he programmed in 10 minutes in an atuomated instant transaction 1 click type system. In the time it takes you to buy a single 6 link shavs right now in talisman a bot could buy every single 5 link and 6 link shavs on the market and relist them for a higher price. In standard league theres people with 5k, 10k exalts on hand, can you imagine those people let lose with bots that could buy 500 items and then relist them at machine speeds and keep track of the market sniping every new one listed instantly and then relisting it, meanwhile the dude whos set these things up has been on holiday for 2 weeks and these digital critters are just beavering away on his behalf absolutely owning the market and making more money for him per hour than 95% of players have made from trade and drops in the last month. If you create a system where bots can trade, buy and sell... asking for trouble imo.

Maybe Im wrong, but to me it seems apocalyptic.




"
maxor wrote:
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
So you shouldn't be asking for 1-click buying. It's never going to happen.



Why?

People who want an easy way to buy and sell items dont care if the flippers method of manipulating the current system is destroyed by an AH.


flippers moethods being destroyed? Dont you mean empowered to the point where they are 100x more effective than they currently are without them even needing to log into the game?
Well, the total size of the flipping market is equal to the total communication distance between buyers and sellers. An "easier" trade system does reduce distance per transaction, but arguably increases trade volume overall to compensate. It's very difficult to say whether the overall flipping market shrinks, expands, or stays relatively constant.

However, the main effect of reducing distance per transaction, while making the system easier, is that it becomes less profitable for people to flip an item themselves, and easier to program a bot to flip on ones behalf. I suspect PoE might already have some issues with this, but 1-click buying would just exacerbate this. Basically, easier trade means human flippers lose and bot flippers win.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Feb 4, 2016, 4:26:03 PM
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
You guys are focused too much on the automated transaction process of the AH and it's potential negative factors and not analyzing enough the other factors that actual produce the environment of massive amounts of currency brought to market and subsequent inflation which results in relative devaluing of average items to rarer tiers.

Fast transactions aren't required for that to happen. What we have now in poe.trade/third party/bots has fast enough transactions for this to happen. Two factors are working against this actually occurring though - small percent of population actually reaching endgame and ,I'm assuming, not everyone uses poe.trade and third party tools.

I know it's easy to think that AH and automation brings down the economy but the conditions for inflation and devaluation have to already exist for an AH to facilitate that process.


PS: To be perfectly clear in case it isn't obvious I'm against an AH and I'm actually against GGG making trade any easier than it is right now. If/when they introduce easier in game trade that close to everyone would end up using I'm really worried it will just turn PoE into a WoW like 'play the money game or lose' game, as one poster put it.



where automation instant buyout makes a difference is in flipping and market control. The kind of flipping power it would take a team of 100 coordinated people 2 weeks to achieve right now will be outmatched by 1 dude with bots he programmed in 10 minutes in an atuomated instant transaction 1 click type system. In the time it takes you to buy a single 6 link shavs right now in talisman a bot could buy every single 5 link and 6 link shavs on the market and relist them for a higher price. In standard league theres people with 5k, 10k exalts on hand, can you imagine those people let lose with bots that could buy 500 items and then relist them at machine speeds and keep track of the market sniping every new one listed instantly and then relisting it, meanwhile the dude whos set these things up has been on holiday for 2 weeks and these digital critters are just beavering away on his behalf absolutely owning the market and making more money for him per hour than 95% of players have made from trade and drops in the last month. If you create a system where bots can trade, buy and sell... asking for trouble imo.

Maybe Im wrong, but to me it seems apocalyptic.


I feel like you missed the larger point I made in my post.

Also we can already achieve what you're describing, look at the master crafting inside trade debacle (I understand it's proportionate to the rate of transactions - hence AH bad but not just AH, look to my previous post). Two this will still be limited by market forces - take a look at scrotie's post for an example of this.
Last edited by GeorgAnatoly on Feb 4, 2016, 5:05:05 PM
"
Arrowneous wrote:
 
What is needed is a way to buy an item without the physical need to engage the seller in Trade Chat. The current requirement that necessitates having the seller be on-line and directly interact with the buyer to make the sale is the whole reason Trade Chat has failed. With a whole world of PoE players it is highly likely that when I find an item I want to buy that the seller is no where to be found. Even if the seller is on-line playing PoE I still have to get the seller to stop and come into chat so that the trade can be executed.


Well you can’t buy sweet lollipops in a candy shop that is closed. Of course when the shop owner is gone, that opens the perfect window for some, how shall we put it, “asynchroneous trading”. :)
Heart of Purity

Awarded 'Silverblade' to Talent Competition Winner 2020.
My collection might be smaller than others but at least I played the game fair and square.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDFO4E5OKSE

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