THOR'S RAINBOWNUKE: off to the Marauder forum

"

bankai1009 wrote:

Hi tackle!

CAn I add you to my list so i can ask noob questions about the build?

of course; i've been on a short break from PoE but probably will be playing a decent amount again starting in a few days

How do you guys feel about the Molten Strike vs Lightning Strike situation?

Here's how I feel:

There is no denying that Lightning Strike is better at clearing large packs.

There is no denying that Molten Strike is much MUCH more effective at killing tanky single targets.

However, I have run into situations in maps where I am using Lightning Strike, and take forever to kill a rare monster because Mjolner isn't proc'ing Discharge enough. I've even died because of this, when the rare has some strong affixes and I just don't leech enough since I'm not doing enough dmg.

Taking that into account as well as having to switch gems each time you fight a boss, that all feels like it leads to a lot of downtime, which counts against Lightning Strike even though there is no doubt that when the map goes as planned, Lightning Strike will result in the fastest clear time without a doubt.

I am guessing Legacy Mjolner wouldn't have that problem, and therefore Lightning Strike would have been more efficient.

On the other hand, running a map with Molten Strike makes you have to concentrate a bit harder, it doesn't have that "auto-clear" feeling that LS has. Sometimes you leap slam from pack to pack and the Molten Strike projectiles don't land as you would like and then you have to leave a few monsters behind on low HP because of the limited AOE of MS. Not to mention that short time between you casting the Molten Strike projectiles and them actually hitting - where sometimes it feels something could really go wrong.

I would love to know what some of you other guys are thinking. Personally I am having a hard time deciding and will probably do timed runs using both methods. All I know is MS takes more effort to run maps with, but it is damn damn annoying to run into that 1 rare monster halfway through the map, your arc kills all the normal monsters and you're stuck there fighting the rare for a good 8 seconds.

Btw tackle70, love that you're so active and answering questions and stuff. Best build ever. Although I miss the amount of rares I got from my MF Caustic Arrow. This build has got the style points and clear speed down for sure though.

"

ggsbv wrote:

How do you guys feel about the Molten Strike vs Lightning Strike situation?

Here's how I feel:

There is no denying that Lightning Strike is better at clearing large packs.

There is no denying that Molten Strike is much MUCH more effective at killing tanky single targets.

However, I have run into situations in maps where I am using Lightning Strike, and take forever to kill a rare monster because Mjolner isn't proc'ing Discharge enough. I've even died because of this, when the rare has some strong affixes and I just don't leech enough since I'm not doing enough dmg.

Taking that into account as well as having to switch gems each time you fight a boss, that all feels like it leads to a lot of downtime, which counts against Lightning Strike even though there is no doubt that when the map goes as planned, Lightning Strike will result in the fastest clear time without a doubt.

I am guessing Legacy Mjolner wouldn't have that problem, and therefore Lightning Strike would have been more efficient.

On the other hand, running a map with Molten Strike makes you have to concentrate a bit harder, it doesn't have that "auto-clear" feeling that LS has. Sometimes you leap slam from pack to pack and the Molten Strike projectiles don't land as you would like and then you have to leave a few monsters behind on low HP because of the limited AOE of MS. Not to mention that short time between you casting the Molten Strike projectiles and them actually hitting - where sometimes it feels something could really go wrong.

I would love to know what some of you other guys are thinking. Personally I am having a hard time deciding and will probably do timed runs using both methods. All I know is MS takes more effort to run maps with, but it is damn damn annoying to run into that 1 rare monster halfway through the map, your arc kills all the normal monsters and you're stuck there fighting the rare for a good 8 seconds.

Btw tackle70, love that you're so active and answering questions and stuff. Best build ever. Although I miss the amount of rares I got from my MF Caustic Arrow. This build has got the style points and clear speed down for sure though.

When I ran the T13 map with "midrange" gear and a non-legacy Mjolner, I felt like the damage was super borderline for Lightning Strike. It feels like it's just high enough to where you can kill rares with Lightning Strike but just low enough where that might occasionally be a bit slow and dangerous in T12+.

Because I think it's borderline on a new Mjolner and less-than-GG gear, I think this is going to be 100% personal preference for a lot of people. I personally would probably use Lightning Strike, but I got really burnt out of Leap Slam + Molten Strike on my run to 100 and there are a couple of things I got really tired of when leap slamming all over in maps (e.g. leaping into an "other allies cannot die" pack I couldn't see and either dying or having the game crash).

And you are correct - if you have a legacy Mjolner, the damage is so absurdly high that there's no reason not to use Lightning Strike.

"

tackle70 wrote:

"

ggsbv wrote:

How do you guys feel about the Molten Strike vs Lightning Strike situation?

Here's how I feel:

There is no denying that Lightning Strike is better at clearing large packs.

There is no denying that Molten Strike is much MUCH more effective at killing tanky single targets.

However, I have run into situations in maps where I am using Lightning Strike, and take forever to kill a rare monster because Mjolner isn't proc'ing Discharge enough. I've even died because of this, when the rare has some strong affixes and I just don't leech enough since I'm not doing enough dmg.

Taking that into account as well as having to switch gems each time you fight a boss, that all feels like it leads to a lot of downtime, which counts against Lightning Strike even though there is no doubt that when the map goes as planned, Lightning Strike will result in the fastest clear time without a doubt.

I am guessing Legacy Mjolner wouldn't have that problem, and therefore Lightning Strike would have been more efficient.

On the other hand, running a map with Molten Strike makes you have to concentrate a bit harder, it doesn't have that "auto-clear" feeling that LS has. Sometimes you leap slam from pack to pack and the Molten Strike projectiles don't land as you would like and then you have to leave a few monsters behind on low HP because of the limited AOE of MS. Not to mention that short time between you casting the Molten Strike projectiles and them actually hitting - where sometimes it feels something could really go wrong.

I would love to know what some of you other guys are thinking. Personally I am having a hard time deciding and will probably do timed runs using both methods. All I know is MS takes more effort to run maps with, but it is damn damn annoying to run into that 1 rare monster halfway through the map, your arc kills all the normal monsters and you're stuck there fighting the rare for a good 8 seconds.

Btw tackle70, love that you're so active and answering questions and stuff. Best build ever. Although I miss the amount of rares I got from my MF Caustic Arrow. This build has got the style points and clear speed down for sure though.

When I ran the T13 map with "midrange" gear and a non-legacy Mjolner, I felt like the damage was super borderline for Lightning Strike. It feels like it's just high enough to where you can kill rares with Lightning Strike but just low enough where that might occasionally be a bit slow and dangerous in T12+.

Because I think it's borderline on a new Mjolner and less-than-GG gear, I think this is going to be 100% personal preference for a lot of people. I personally would probably use Lightning Strike, but I got really burnt out of Leap Slam + Molten Strike on my run to 100 and there are a couple of things I got really tired of when leap slamming all over in maps (e.g. leaping into an "other allies cannot die" pack I couldn't see and either dying or having the game crash).

And you are correct - if you have a legacy Mjolner, the damage is so absurdly high that there's no reason not to use Lightning Strike.

I guess this is exactly the reason why I can't make the decision - because its so borderline. You're right, it probably is a preference thing.

To be honest, I haven't died using Molten Strike, but I have had a couple of times where I got lucky because I got so low before the projectiles started hitting and leeching that I probably should have died.

Not to mention using Molten Strike means I have to continuously Leap Slam in order to keep Fortify going. Either that or commit to RRRG-ing my The Vertex in order to go MS-Faster Attacks-Fortify-Multistrike... But I love LS too much lol. No feeling like clearing a whole room while attacking a single pack. Shits unreal

And about feeling burnt out? Tell me about it..................... Game is hard.

Among all the builds that I have looked and researched into, this is the one for me. I feel it, thanks for organizing all these together and its a lot of fun reading through each sections.

Thanks.

Juicy!

I recently went to create a Scion for the sole purpose of tasting that highly regarded Ascendancy for this build. This has perhaps been one of the easiest/fastest mapping experiences that I have experienced so far, although the berserker can still clear maps faster due to to its superior damage. Whilst only being the 2nd best damage dealer, the Scion makes up for it by having more flexible gearing, better tankiness and that 1.5% life leech. It is thanks to this flexibility and leech that I finally manage to knock down Malachai in a multi proj, increased aoe and hasted CORE MAP, without any deaths. to hit level 89. Albeit, I portaled out of the fight 4 times to refresh flasks and avoid some unfavorable positions. (Once in the Piety phase and Thrice in the Solo phase).




My scion variation is more or less a copy paste of Tackle's original build guide, save for a different gem and gear setup. Overall, my main attack is a non-GMP lvl 21 LS that costs 0 mana to use thanks to a reduced mana gema and an elreon ring. My movement skill is a level 1 flame dash linked to a reduced mana gem so that it too costs 0 mana. This allows for a slightly more reckless playstyle in generic mapping. For single target, I do a chest swap to my GMP MS setup that cost 14 mana (which is sustained by having 7 LGoH from jewels). As my helm has a +2 MS proj enchantment, I spew 9 projectiles per strike, leading to some of the fastest boos melts possible. For defensive consistency, I have a fortify gem linked to my main attacks despite also having taken the champion ascendancy. (honestly you can pick the slayer ascendancy over the champion one) In addition, I run an Ancestral Protector to boost my dps in single target and offer a surprisingly nice distraction.

For taking down bosses like Malachai, which will chill and often freeze you. I swap my boots for a pair of self-crafted Mutewind Boots from the Warbands League. These boots give me freeze immunity whilst providing ample stats that I can tweak to my liking. Such boots offer a great deal of flexibility over using a dream fragment ring or the wanderlust boots.



Overall, the scion is ,as the guide suggests, probably the best overall ascendancy for this type of build.

Toying around with Intuitive Leap on the Jewel socket on Templar side which allows getting both a Power and an Endurance charge using only 2 points, as well as saving a point on Faith and Steel.

What I was considering was whether it would be worth it to go the extra Endurance charge (the one above Blood Magic) as well as the Power Charge 3 points away from Ghost Reaver, making our Discharge 6/6. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'm lvl 93 atm, when I'm hundred I'll be able to toy around with this some more to test thoroughly... It doesn't seem like a TERRIBLE idea though... would love one of the overlords to comment

I think 6/6 charges is an unnecessary thing. I play with 5/5 and i saw that EC or PC barely be at 5 for more than half second, though i think still more far less dam than legacy one. It is a huge disadvantage of non-legacy mjolner :'( Sadly i cant play mjolner at its full power with my friends at temp league.

@iSo1iD : i tried to clear the core a few day ago at lvl94. I did it terribly and cant even kill boss in his first phase. Died because shavronne 3 times because of her reflect, smash 2 times because cant jump out of range soon enough and freeze when out of flask. My problem is i can not see any thing when its come to time, despite using the medium setting while running 2x960. I think i have to improve my play style and play at potato setting for this map. Anyway, i admire u that can clear that map deadless.

Yeah I think 6 charges is a bit inefficient. Get 4 if on a legacy mjolner, 5 if on new mjolner.

"

tackle70 wrote:

Yeah I think 6 charges is a bit inefficient. Get 4 if on a legacy mjolner, 5 if on new mjolner.

^Agreed 100%.

On the topic of charges, if you want to run 6 or 7 power charges, it is possible to achieve consistent 6/6 or even 7/7 discharges if you use Blade Vortex. Currently, almost all CoC Discharge builds run blade vortex, as at arnd 12-15 blade vortex stacks, your spinning blades will be able to consistently generate 7 power charges before each discharge. The same principle can be applied to the rainbownuke variation.

I personally tried running self cast blade vortex, although its nowhere near as good or convenient as having your blade vortex proc through CoC. Basically, as a scion with the berseker ascendancy and an elreon ring, you drop your blasphemy+curse setup for a level 1 blade vortex + increased duration/spell echo. If you have 4 link you can run blade vortex with spell echo and increased duration with reduced mana. The only time it was worth building up my blade vortex was right before boss fights, and honestly I only saw valuable differences in boss killing speed in T13-T15 maps (minus core). Most of the time, its a hassle to build up your blade vortex stacks. In fights like Atziri or Malachai, where blade vortex's charge generation would be extremely useful, you will need to constantly rebuild charges, which is not exactly easy to do in such hectic scenarios. It is much easier to do in Atziri fights than the Malachai fight, as you can safely build charges during Atziri's phase changes or mob phase.

However from a cost/benefit analysis standpoint, its not very worth running blade vortex as you will have to sacrifice gem slots and passive points to make it worth effectively. Furthermore, self-casting blade vortex is really annoying and wastes quite a bit of time, thereby reducing overall map clear speed.