Map drop is NOT fine and it is killing the fun
" BLASPHEMY god kills a kitten every time somebody barters for a map "Dude he fucking said hotdog racist.
Like I can't even make this shit up." - gj 1.0.0 Forum Posters now have 50% less Critical Thinking skill per Patch |
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Gating the game content using RNG is a terrible game design, like really really bad.
Gating it by challenge on the other hand is a very very good design. But there is a "but this" for such an option in poe. PoE has really low skill requirement to play content itself. Im sure if ppl had opportunity to run atziri or uber freely, they would dodge better than Mathil. So only option for GGG is to present gear checks. Which is even worse than RNG gating. There is not much thay can do. PoE is just this type of game (genere) where developers have too few options. But its just my opinion... IGN: PojzonAbyss [3.2] Immortal Indigon Poet's Pen Hirophant - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2129766 [3.1] Yamata No Orochi - Oni-Goroshi Jugg http://poeurl.com/bHB9 [2.4] The True Queen Of The Forest - Poison LA/BR Pathfinder http://poeurl.com/M6u [Retired] Last edited by eragon1111 on Jan 22, 2016, 2:58:07 AM
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First, I'd like to point out that different players have different needs. The argument saying "it is/isn't fine for me" doesn't make sense, as it, by essence, only applies to one person.
Some of the mechanics involved in mapping don't seem to make sense to me. Why do chisels (quality) affect map drop rates? This seems to be a currency sink for the sake of a currency sink (above X tier, you need to use chisels in order to sustain maps, and won't ever use them for maps below that tier). This sink needs to be reworked very badly in order to make the use of chisels a choice rather than a necessity. My thought is that quality should increase experience gained in the map, rather than item quantity. This way, chisels aren't mandatory (if you don't have anymore chisels, you just don't get the extra XP, you aren't locked out of content), but most players would be glad to spend them, and on a wider range of maps. |
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Spoiler
Last edited by klink1950 on Jan 22, 2016, 4:06:12 AM
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" Yep. And for proof I need only point at endless examples of games which offer all their content without dice rolls. I can't list those games because it'd overload the server with all the text I'd enter. It's a self-defeating argument to say the game revolves around an economy and therefore you should have to provide inputs/outputs for the economy to play the game; it ignores the question of whether the extent to which the game is based on a stock market is a good or bad thing. Is a 'PvP' economy (if I win currency, you or someone else must lose) a good idea? Ask Bard's Tale. Ask Zork. Ask Angband. Ask bullet hell arcade shooters. Ask Diablo 2 (I didn't play any economy games in that, notwithstanding that some did). This game is heavily based off all of those games above, but seems to be also based on a monomaniacal desire to incorporate a pretend, and not particularly analogous real life stock market. | |
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+0.5(I dont agree with the 'map progession should be a grind and not a boss kill check')
I have a few people im acquainted with that just gave up around T8 and 1 @ tiers 12-14. The maps just stop dropping and you just stop progressing... The real challenge seems to be whether you're patient enough to grind high tier maps without rage-quitting from no map dropping. Ive grinded all the way up to T8 and did that at least 3x(Zana made it somewhat ezier) b4 i finally died from the shock and horror boss (i blames boredom and apathy..lol)......... :'( my ego. I suggested this awhile ago: "Maybe a loot table that is 100% chance to drop something, and 4 that drop have it decided like: 10% chance to be a higher tier, 90% chance to be same tier map, when you kill the map boss." | |
" for someone with pretty nill personal experience you do talk a lot. how is your map pool going? | |
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First off: Great post, Mivo, like usually.
I also think challenging content should not be gated behind RNG. Else the game is mostly unchallenging and then what's the point? You should only progress if you run content that's hard for your character. But if you do run challenging content, then you really should progress. So here's what I think should happen: 1. Let map drop rate depend on (maplevel-playerlevel)*mapIIQ, with some mathematically clever factors. 2. Only the boss can drop +1/+2 maps and only if the formula in 1) allows it. Other monsters can only drop from -5..0 of the current level, and only if the formula allows it. This would mean that you will not progress in white (=easy and cheap) maps if your level is too high. If you're well overlevelled, you should need high IIQ maps. If you run hard rare maps and kill the boss, your chances of progress in map levels increase. So much so, that if you're either not overlevelled much or have a huge IIQ map (and thus many dangerous map mods), then you should be almost guaranteed a 0..+2 map. Actually a bit like greater rifts in D3: If you can clear them fast enough, then you're obviously qualified to progress to the next one... whatcha think? May your maps be bountiful, exile Last edited by SisterBlister on Jan 22, 2016, 6:52:02 AM
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" Expecting players to actually help one another is like the most idiotic thing you've ever said. In an anonymous environment, players are far more prone to acting like jackasses, especially when the environment promotes it. See every survival game since DayZ. And yes, it is awful game design to gate content behind ridiculous gates like RNG/Excessive Time/Trade/whatever you want to call it. They teach you that in basic game design classes; no one has done shit like this for like decades in games. Want to know why? Because it's stupid to do so, and merely just pisses off your player base. If it wasn't for the fact that other parts of the game didn't blow chunks, people would have quit this shit ages ago. And three, I'm beginning to think you actually don't play the game, or don't play it very often and just like to troll these forums. You speak from an authoritative position and yet your arguments about the game show that you have a fundamental lack of experience. Anyone who has actually engaged in the market and played the game knows how awful and silly the trade system actually is (and how it highly encourages jackasses like LW to scam you), and how terrible the mapping system is. And here you are defending two of the worst aspects of the game. I mean shit, I still remember you were still trying to somehow defend Chris' position regarding predictive netcode and why it's better than deterministic netcode. Last edited by allbusiness on Jan 22, 2016, 7:06:13 AM
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