Map drop is NOT fine and it is killing the fun

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Jaille wrote:

It's like if you win the jackpot in a slot-machine and tell other people that they're doing something wrong because they don't win

No.

Here's what it's really like...

Give 4 players 5 marbles each; you're the referee. You tell them that they can give you a marble, then you roll two six-sided dice, one white for coins and one red for marbles. The player who gave you the marble gets back...
1 or 2: nothing
3 or 4: 1 coin/marble
5: 2 coins/marbles
6: 3 coins/marbles
On average, that means you take a marble and give back 1.16 marbles and 1.16 coins.

When a player is out of marbles, they lose. If a player gets to 100 coins, they win. Multiple players can win the same game. Players can also trade coins and marbles with each other, at will.

Three of these players realize that the ability to trade with each other allows the randomness to even out, and they trade coins away for marbles when low on marbles, and marbles away for coins when they have excess marbles.

But the fourth player stubbornly refuses to participate in the trading scheme, eventually hits a steak of no marbles, and loses despite sitting on a pile of coins. Then makes a QQ thread about it on the forums.

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thepmrc wrote:

I rarely see a correlation between the difficulty of the map and the map rewards.

That's because there ain't any

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Jaille wrote:

It's like if you win the jackpot in a slot-machine and tell other people that they're doing something wrong because they don't win

No.

Here's what it's really like...

Give 4 players 5 marbles each; you're the referee. You tell them that they can give you a marble, then you roll two six-sided dice, one white for coins and one red for marbles. The player who gave you the marble gets back...
1 or 2: nothing
3 or 4: 1 coin/marble
5: 2 coins/marbles
6: 3 coins/marbles
On average, that means you take a marble and give back 1.16 marbles and 1.16 coins.

When a player is out of marbles, they lose. If a player gets to 100 coins, they win. Multiple players can win the same game. Players can also trade coins and marbles with each other, at will.

Three of these players realize that the ability to trade with each other allows the randomness to even out, and they trade coins away for marbles when low on marbles, and marbles away for coins when they have excess marbles.

But the fourth player stubbornly refuses to participate in the trading scheme, eventually hits a steak of no marbles, and loses despite sitting on a pile of coins. Then makes a QQ thread about it on the forums.

Well put.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Jaille wrote:

It's like if you win the jackpot in a slot-machine and tell other people that they're doing something wrong because they don't win

No.

Here's what it's really like...

Give 4 players 5 marbles each; you're the referee. You tell them that they can give you a marble, then you roll two six-sided dice, one white for coins and one red for marbles. The player who gave you the marble gets back...
1 or 2: nothing
3 or 4: 1 coin/marble
5: 2 coins/marbles
6: 3 coins/marbles
On average, that means you take a marble and give back 1.16 marbles and 1.16 coins.

When a player is out of marbles, they lose. If a player gets to 100 coins, they win. Multiple players can win the same game. Players can also trade coins and marbles with each other, at will.

Three of these players realize that the ability to trade with each other allows the randomness to even out, and they trade coins away for marbles when low on marbles, and marbles away for coins when they have excess marbles.

But the fourth player stubbornly refuses to participate in the trading scheme, eventually hits a steak of no marbles, and loses despite sitting on a pile of coins. Then makes a QQ thread about it on the forums.

That's a reasonable analogy but needs extension. Players can trade coins and marbles with each other, but they have to walk 100 metres away from the game to conduct any trade because reasons.

Players 1-3 accept this because it comes with the territory and oh well. Player four either believes they deserve better and stubbornly refuses to participate; cannot stand subjecting themselves to the walk each and every time; or has fond memories of marble games where the trade could just be done on the spot as part of the game.

ITT the effort of alt-tabbing to another window is unironically compared to walking across a football field and back again.

The point I'm trying to get at is that mapping is not gated by RNG. Mapping not being gated by trade, is gated by RNG (just like every other kind of loot). Which, for everyone who isn't exceptionally lucky, means mapping (and loot in general) is gated by trade. So stop raging at RNGesus, and direct your hatred at a more deserving target: the current trade system. Assuming that, you know, alt-tabbing is just too much work for you.

@Scrotie,

first,

second, I liked your coins and marbles example.
but what's missing from it is the part where the player can actually be good at the game itself, rather than the trade around it.
unless you imply the trade IS the game - where I strongly disagree.

the marbles? well each has modifiers, and tiers and whatnot - making it "harder" or "riskier" compared to others, or vice versa.
the "good player (tm)" can play with the harder ones which also offer more risk of losing the game (especially on "hardcore").
but there is not a single damned point in doing so... because we let RNGsus decide fates for all regardless of anything else. so the "smart player (tm)" uses trade.
but not to balance RNGsus. to bypass it as much as possible.

ADDIT: also, Mapping isn't loot. it is content. while I've put up with the seemingly complete lack of risk/reward ratio in loot over the years (albeit kicking and screaming) - access to content is where I feel the "RNG Uber Alles" line in the sand should really be drawn.
"PoE RNG Uber Alles" to be precise. because RNG all by itself is a very good and necessary concept in ARPG - but looks like GGG murdered the poor bastard, and replaced him with this MOFO

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davidnn5 wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Jaille wrote:

It's like if you win the jackpot in a slot-machine and tell other people that they're doing something wrong because they don't win

No.

Here's what it's really like...

Give 4 players 5 marbles each; you're the referee. You tell them that they can give you a marble, then you roll two six-sided dice, one white for coins and one red for marbles. The player who gave you the marble gets back...
1 or 2: nothing
3 or 4: 1 coin/marble
5: 2 coins/marbles
6: 3 coins/marbles
On average, that means you take a marble and give back 1.16 marbles and 1.16 coins.

When a player is out of marbles, they lose. If a player gets to 100 coins, they win. Multiple players can win the same game. Players can also trade coins and marbles with each other, at will.

Three of these players realize that the ability to trade with each other allows the randomness to even out, and they trade coins away for marbles when low on marbles, and marbles away for coins when they have excess marbles.

But the fourth player stubbornly refuses to participate in the trading scheme, eventually hits a steak of no marbles, and loses despite sitting on a pile of coins. Then makes a QQ thread about it on the forums.

That's a reasonable analogy but needs extension. Players can trade coins and marbles with each other, but they have to walk 100 metres away from the game to conduct any trade because reasons.

Players 1-3 accept this because it comes with the territory and oh well. Player four either believes they deserve better and stubbornly refuses to participate; cannot stand subjecting themselves to the walk each and every time; or has fond memories of marble games where the trade could just be done on the spot as part of the game.

This is still better than PoE trade, where you have to walk 100m, but it's not guaranteed that there will be a trader there.

"

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thepmrc wrote:

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StDrakeX wrote:

Map drops working as intended...

This is the problem with the content being so heavily mired in RNG. Some people get lucky (you), others do not. I have had decent luck with map drops at times, but in general it feels very unrewarding. Corrupted 8 mod rare maps with 140+ quantity and 30+ pack size drop nothing, and a blue map with no quality drops 9 maps. I rarely see a correlation between the difficulty of the map and the map rewards.

He has a level 100 obviously he knows better than you right? Everyone is lucky as him! Right?

Well those are talisman maps so I don't know why having a 100 in standard got to do with anything, but you continue being salty it seems to suit you.

@thepmrc
I just think you need to be willing to run maps you're usually not willing to; either hard mods or lower tiers to build your pool enough to handle bad rng streaks. And yes RNG has plagued others in my rotations but you get over it, cause what's the alternative? You bitch on the forums which does nothing to progress you anyways...

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edgewood wrote:

I am literally stuck at t8's at lvl 92 I chisel alch and make sure all maps I do are high lvl for supposed returns. Just finished a t11 that was the result of me upgrading every set of maps in my 3 full tabs of LOW maps to a t9 and I got 2 lucky drops.

...

I totally understand and agree that it shouldn't be easy to progress or even be able to sustain the top tier maps 14-15 and to keep them as something special but gating the mid tiered maps to this horrid rng has frankly sucked all the fun out of playing in this league.

...

but to get a t6,5,4,1 back from 2 weeks of upgrading to a t11 map is not only not rewarding but it is demoralizing.

Progression to 100 is meant to be slow and tedious, and I'm glad you're aware of that. There's no real point continuing to level your character more if you feel like you're punishing yourself doing it. It's there for those who enjoy the process. What I've learned so far in PoE that if you focus on grinding for the next thing, you're never going to enjoy the gameplay. It will become tedious and seemingly pointless since the next carrot is so far away. Go have fun with another character and put your 92 on the shelf for a while.

While I agree the map drop does indeed need tweaking, I don't think it matters quite as much as you emphasize. The process is still going to be slow, whether it's Molasses in January or February. It's still slow, and the map drop rate doesn't have that much of an impact.

And when you reach 100, are you expecting some sort of amazing, epic moment? If/when you reach 100 you'll be disappointed. All of that grinding for nothing more than some bragging rights. Save yourself the pain and get back to enjoying PoE again instead of focusing on the grind.

Stuck at T8's with my lvl89 char, highest I've played was 1 T12 and 3 T10. I'd just like to try those high maps, don't care much about getting to 100...

But since GGG likes the droprates as they are and keeps loving RNG so much, not much hope for me...