Map drop is NOT fine and it is killing the fun

*subscribes to this thread*

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Feins_ wrote:

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grepman wrote:

What is particularly wrong with not seeing a t15 drop "at all" ?

Devs have stated numerous times,that a high map drop should be a very rare and memorable event.

That's like saying I have not seen a shavs drop at all this league. Yeah and? It's exactly

but that leaves me kind of puzzled how and why you would compare a shavronne's wrappings with T15. amazing stretch. really.

how the hell is that a stretch ?
what do you think a 'rare and special' is ? any uniques in the game below t1 are easily obtainable and are not 'rare' or 'special'

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all those comparisons are just cheap attempts to deflect from the core issue and discredit anyone thinking that it would be kind of nice to get a T15 once in a half year of playtime. it is, after all, just a consumable item you use once and then it is gone.

there is no deflection. the problem of your definition of 'rare and special' for maps deviates from what your definition of 'rare and special' for unique items is.

a map being consumable is irrelevant. mirror is also a consumable, as are eternals (now retired). you get experience from the map.

put it this way, there are less vaal temple maps on sale in talisman right now than there are skyforths. that goes along with how 'rare and special'

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i am fine with the concept of those maps being "special" and rare. it is, however, a "little" to much "special-ness".

no you clearly are not fine with it. you either have double standards or simply weird expectations of something being 'special' and 'rare'. a t1 unique or a mirror is special and rare- you seem to agree. so why cant a map be as special and rare as a t1 unique or a mirror ?

what's so inherently 'wrong' about that ? I asked you already and did not receive an answer

GGG treats 100 level like some god-like achievement and close any roads to reach it in reasonable time. You get rid off that notion and boom - new hardcore content arrives. Area level 100, T20 maps, crazy boss fights with lot of stages and diversification. Builds, gear, 100lvl, maxed gems, nothing can't help you, but your skill. Imagine this, today - you just need to give up protecting 100 level like an egg. Remove useless cruel (I hope in the future with more acts they'll eventually do it), make more map tiers and let the magic happen.

Even Diablo 3 with all it's flaws can deliver ladder based on how far you went with your skill (rift levels), not just brainless level grind.

Another problem: I don't like the lazy design of maps. I would like to see end-game maps (T16+?) with completely different tile sets. Something special, something different with unique bosses, like Atziri. Best example - music in Acton's Nightmare. I love it, it's unique and gives player something fresh. Try to recall all those strange final dungeons from Final Fantasy, or even Diablo 2 and space map (although it was main location, still gave a completely different feeling). The game lacks something like this.

The whole map drop situation has a very inhibiting effect on me in this game. I struggle to sustain maps above T5, the highest I've ever found is T10, and only a handful of T8+. I have a whole slew of level 80-90 characters waiting to be thrown at higher level maps, but those few mid tier maps mostly just sit in my stash. Why? Because I get the feeling that running these maps will be my one and only chance to do them, and I need to do a complete clear to have any chance of getting replacement mid-tier maps (never mind high tier, forget that, it's an illusion, Exile). So I end up overlevelling my characters in tiny grinding steps until even these few mid-tier maps would pose no challenge. I only ran one T9, which in the end was a cakewalk, and dropped a couple of T8's that I am supposed to be grateful for.

I don't even grind all my characters on T1-4 maps, because they're not worth much XP. My one MF character mostly does them to grind for gear and maps (I know MF doesn't depend on player IIQ/IIR, but killing two birds with one stone). I grind most characters up to about 75-80 on Dry Lake, then a few T1-4 maps until low 80's and T4's are worthless, and then.... nothing. Character development stops because it's slow and boring. I level up a new character with a different build and skills instead.

Plenty of T1-4 maps drop, so when I get a full stash tab I vendor them up the ladder to get a few T6 maps. It takes 81 T1 maps to get 1 T5 map, so you can see how efficient that is. But T1-4 maps will never drop anything higher than T5, so I have to do this. I run these T5's and T6's, get a tiny number of T5-7 maps to replace them, use them, get nothing, and I'm back to MF grinding the T1-4 maps again.

RNG for gear and currency, fine. I'd like to see some shifting of gear drops to make bosses more attractive. I don't mind if some of the bosses are made a bit more difficult to compensate. It's a bit embarrassing to find my best gear under a rock instead of a tough boss, but hey...

RNG for content, completely sucks, hate it.

Trade for maps, shouldn't be necessary. I'm OK with trade in principle, but the actual implementation in PoE utterly repels me. It's like having to deal with used car salesmen. Not trying to insult the traders out there, but that's how it feels to me. I'd prefer to have, you know, an actual online shop, where I can see an item, see the price, pay my currency, get the item and leave. But this isn't a trade thread so I'll stop there.

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grepman wrote:

a t1 unique or a mirror is special and rare- you seem to agree. so why cant a map be as special and rare as a t1 unique or a mirror ?

what's so inherently 'wrong' about that ? I asked you already and did not receive an answer

you are basically comparing an occultist's vestment with a shavronnes.

i don't think you'll get it but maybe ... maybe this enlightens you.

Trading for maps is in no way shape or form is "necessary" (even though it is efficient, but don't confuse efficiency with necessity). I was able to get through to run some t13s on my first league toon simply through doing grinding things in a game about grinding things.

Haven't bought a single map or a chisel.

Now leveling a second toon in 70s and ill prolly be able to reach(not sustain) 14s simply because of the pyramidal way maps work.

I was able to do that with a magma orb build and a 2h frostblades build.

So unless your goal is to reach and somehow sustain t13+s (which should be close to impossible if you don't play alot/power trade/group split costs) there is no reason to purchase maps. Unless you really value efficiency and really hate grinding things in a game about grinding things.

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Ruefl2x wrote:

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grepman wrote:

a t1 unique or a mirror is special and rare- you seem to agree. so why cant a map be as special and rare as a t1 unique or a mirror ?

what's so inherently 'wrong' about that ? I asked you already and did not receive an answer

you are basically comparing an occultist's vestment with a shavronnes.

um, no Im not. an occultists vestment is worthless. its a shitty base and its only worth is to being chanced. a t15 white map drop is not worthless. a white map drop is special. a white occultists vestment drop is worthless.

your analogy is weak, sorry. you shouldve at least made it an unlinked shavs vs 6linked shavs if you wanted to talk about investment of currency

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Also a mirror can drop from normal twilight strand. you can get a shavronnes from act3 merc. if you wish to "farm" it you at least can try as often as you like.

sure but that doesnt mean you'll get them.

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but trying to get higher maps requires you to find lower maps. and here is the problem.
if you decide to advance you are at the mercy of rng. if you advance at the "right time" you climb fast. if it's the "wrong" time you will lose your whole base and have to start all over. the problem is you can't bypass this bad rng no matter what you do. the other guy might advance with only blue maps while you spend your whole wealth and get nothing.

and ? with RNG you have variance. the other guy might get a mirror and shavs, and you wont get jack shit, so ? eventually the other guy will have his luck run out and he will come crashing hard into the same tier you're in when you're grinding lower level maps. unless youre trying to push the ladder- it's largely irrelevant.

the pyramid map system requires to do map management by grinding lower level maps and investing currency.

again, the problem is actually two things:
1) people dont want to grind lower tier maps, because [OMGZ Im too good for this game and I haz mad skillz. look I put bladefall in and followed an online guide, mad skillz bro]
2) people dont want to spend in-game currency on maps

if you do enough of lower tier maps, you will progress- guaranteed. you might not progress as fast
the other player will and not as fast as you want or if you buy maps, but if you're looking at the next man, nothing good will come out of it. you will only feel more jealous, pissed off and entitled to things you are not.

this is why I say players are entitled. players remember 'bad' RNG that happened to them or 'good' RNG that happened to other man. but not 'good' RNG that happened to them or 'bad' RNG that happened to the other man. players need to stop being biased and view things objectively.

in fact, skyforth

ilvl restriction of 84 (need t15 map, thus 'gated')

-or-

requires considerable currency investment (chance orbs)


-and-
is considered 'special' and 'rare'

all checkboxes are checked off here.

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grepman wrote:

again, the problem is actually two things:
1) people dont want to grind lower tier maps, because [OMGZ Im too good for this game and I haz mad skillz. look I put bladefall in and followed an online guide, mad skillz bro]
2) people dont want to spend in-game currency on maps

if you do enough of lower tier maps, you will progress- guaranteed. you might not progress as fast
the other player will and not as fast as you want or if you buy maps, but if you're looking at the next man, nothing good will come out of it. you will only feel more jealous, pissed off and entitled to things you are not.

Mmmm, no, I don't want to grind low tier maps indefinitely because it's almost completely worthless, literally a waste of time, lots of it. No XP gain, pretty much. Pretty worthless item drops, good for chaos recipe. Maybe some non-useless uniques if I am lucky and I grind with my MF character. Maybe a few more low level maps if I am lucky. No challenge.

For the characters I am trying to level up, good luck with that. I'm not getting enough mid tier drops to level up one character or even break even on mid tier maps. Even for a game built around grinding, there has to be some sense of progression, and there just isn't. Once my chars are past gaining from T4 maps, that's pretty much the end of the road.

I alch ALL maps, including T1's, in the desperate and vain hope that I will get better map drops. I don't mind paying currency to make a map better, more challenging and more rewarding, but at my discretion. I do mind essentially being blocked from basic access to this content.

PoE is by some margin the game that I have invested most time in, and I have been gaming for a loooooong time. Sinclair Spectrum long. If the game wasn't so fascinating around the skill tree, gear, and gems, I would have been out of here a long time ago. As it is, I can see myself quitting, not out of boredom with the game, or playing one of the hundreds of other games I own, but out of sheer frustration with the mapping side of the game, this requirement to grind finer and finer and longer and longer just to get access to content.

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grepman wrote:

what's so inherently 'wrong' about that ? I asked you already and did not receive an answer

if you'd really read my posts you would have found the answer.

but let me use your tactics to formulate an appropriate answer for you.

do you, maybe, feel entitled to recieve an answer to your question ? and why is that ?