Damage conversion + Goddes Scorned

Hi,

I found this in poe.wiki about damage conversion: "Damage conversion is done before any increases, or multipliers are applied to damage guaranteeing that they are only applied once." ... But The Goddess Scorned has "(250 to 300)% increased Physical Damage" aswell as "100% of Physical Damage Converted to Fire Damage" ... if all Phy. Damage gets converted into Fire, what is the "(250 to 300)% increased Physical Damage" good for?

If u would have read the whole page. U would also find, "Converted damage is affected by modifiers that apply to be both the original damage type it was converted from, and the new damage type that is was converted to."

Sorry I still dont understand completly how it works.
For example.

You got 100 Phys. Damage
100% Phys. to Fire convertion
then you got +100% Phys. Damage multiplier

You got:
100 Fire after conversion

and then the multiplier applies to Fire insted of Phys. making it 200 Fire?

Physical damage bonus on the weapon isn't really a good example, it improves the weapon damage and the resulting number is used as your base in further calculations.

But here's an example of what you want to know - let's say your weapon deals 100 physical damage and 50 lightning damage per hit, your skill does 120% base damage and converts 50% physical damage to fire, you got 30% increased melee physical damage and 40% increased weapon elemental damage, you're also using melee physical damage support which gives you 50% more melee phys damage and WED support which gives you 60% more weapon ele damage.

Your base is 100 physical and 50% gets converted to fire, however, it keeps the physical property in a way because it's based on physical and bonuses that affect original damage will improve the converted part too.

So, your base is
50 physical
50 fire (physical)
50 lightning

And the damage formula for separate parts would be:
50 * 1,2 * (1 + 0,3) * 1,5 = 117 physical
50 * 1,2 * (1+ 0,3 + 0,4) * 1,5 * 1,6 = 244 fire
50 * 1,2 * (1 + 0,4) * 1,6 = 134 lightning

In my opinion, the easiest way to think about it is just that "bonuses remember" which means that converted fire isn't actually pure fire, it is phys->fire, which acts like fire damage but benefits from phys bonuses.

The main reason for the line you read is to prevent double dipping when bonuses are general. For example suppose you had 100 base phys and you converted phys->lightning->cold->fire":

"10% increased elemental damage" will grant a final damage of 110 fire. (Was it ever elemental? If yes, apply bonus)

"10% increased fire damage
10% increased cold damage
10% increased lightning damage" will grant a final damage of 130 fire. (For eaxh line: Was it ever x element? If yes, apply bonus)

EDIT: Since this confusion seems to pop up pretty frequently do you guys think it might be worthwhile for me to put my version of explanation on the wiki page?

Hey, yes it would be really nice to get a full explanation of the order and multiplier effects of conversion. Right now its kind of counter-intuitiv that "30% increased melee physical damage" also applies to fire damage that used to be physical damage.

And next question: So the real order is -
1. Take base damage on you weapon
2. Apply multipliers from weapon onto it
3. Convert
4. Apply all other multipliers (other items, passivs etc.) to it
(4b. Multipliers apply to both the actual damage type and the used-to damage type)

Right?

Sorry, got another question, if I got it straight:

I got 100 Fire Damage and convert 50% into Cold.
So 50 Fire - 50 Cold.
Now I got a +10% Fire Damage and +10% Cold Damage
Is it
55 Fire - 55 Cold
or
55 Fire - 60 Cold? (Because the Cold Damage used to be Fire, so it gets the bonus from both?)

Yeah, the order is fine, though the bonuses in step 2 aren't technically multipliers, they are regular 'increased' bonuses but they don't sum with those from your tree or gear because they directly affect the weapon itself, not you.

The answer to the second question is 55-60, all conversions in the game follow the same rule, even stuff like Iron Reflexes or old Eldritch Battery.

55 fire 60 cold is the right answer. You got the idea that damage remembers!

Fun fact you should ignore if it increases confusion: in this game there is a set conversion order that prevents infinite conversion loops. It is phys to lightning to cold to fire to chaos. So technically you could never convert fire to cold as it goes "uphill" in the set order.

And it also means you can theoretically have a part of your damage that is all those damage types at once. Though, it will be dealt to enemies as the last element in the chain, in case you were wondering if that converted damage from your example ends up going against fire res or physical reduction.

And stuff like Hatred works BEFORE conversion scaling on physical, but AFTER physical got all its multipliers/increases?