Difference between melee and range builds.

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pneuma wrote:


Melee characters aren't fit for most parts of the game.


utter nonsense, this statement is so far from being even close to true that I cant even understand how you managed to post it.

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sidtherat wrote:
most arpg games at least try to somehow close the gap between ranged and melee - be it more survivability to melee or less damage to ranged. there are ways better or worse but there are ways

poe does not try. at all.



completely false statement.




the amount of nonsense in this thread is comical, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Last edited by Snorkle_uk on Jan 13, 2016, 7:21:55 AM
You literally agreed with me in another thread that ranged characters particularly bow characters take far less of an investment in order to make endgame/late game map viable. That is by definition a very big gap between the two playstyles. Ranged characters are not just easier, they are far more effective for almost the entire game up until the very end, at which point ranged characters arguably still clear faster because they have more effective AoE clear with Chain and LA explosions or KB explosions.

Last edited by allbusiness on Jan 13, 2016, 7:17:27 AM
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allbusiness wrote:
You literally agreed with me in another thread that ranged characters particularly bow characters take far less of an investment in order to make endgame/late game map viable. That is by definition a very big gap between the two playstyles. Ranged characters are not just easier, they are far more effective for almost the entire game up until the very end, at which point ranged characters arguably still clear faster because they have more effective AoE clear with Chain and LA explosions or KB explosions.



what you have said here is pretty meaningless and in no way excuses the completely fabrication and nonsense being posted in this thread. I agreed that ranged is cheaper, what I quote above are literally lies, they are factually not true, me agreeing with you that ranged is cheaper does not make flat out false statements ok.

Yeah I remember the convo, the one where basically it tunred out 95% of what you were saying was nonsense and you confirmed this by posting completely contradicting statements in other threads that invalidated pretty much any seemingly meaningful comment you had made.
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Snorkle_uk wrote:
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allbusiness wrote:
You literally agreed with me in another thread that ranged characters particularly bow characters take far less of an investment in order to make endgame/late game map viable. That is by definition a very big gap between the two playstyles. Ranged characters are not just easier, they are far more effective for almost the entire game up until the very end, at which point ranged characters arguably still clear faster because they have more effective AoE clear with Chain and LA explosions or KB explosions.



what you have said here is pretty meaningless and in no way excuses the completely fabrication and nonsense being posted in this thread. I agreed that ranged is cheaper, what I quote above are literally lies, they are factually not true, me agreeing with you that ranged is cheaper does not make flat out false statements ok.

Yeah I remember the convo, the one where basically it tunred out 95% of what you were saying was nonsense and you confirmed this by posting completely contradicting statements in other threads that invalidated pretty much any seemingly meaningful comment you had made.



You just contradicted yourself and you said I'm making nonsense?


What is the definition of imbalance in a video game? It's whenever something is extremely effective with little to no investment. When you compare Ranged vs Melee up until early maps to late game maps, ranged has a distinct and massive advantage. This leads to a farming advantage early, because ranged characters don't need to worry heavily about defenses other than surviving maybe 2-3 hits at most (since they can kite and still do damage while melee really can't unless you are Reave or LS, neither which are really 'true' melee). You can stack MF with ranged while you really can't as melee, which leads to farm advantages in a trade centric game. You use that trade advantage and leverage it even further to push harder and faster.

You just admitted to ranged being cheaper to build, being more effective with less items then a melee character. Casters in particular can get away by just leveling and no need to scale with items really, especially with the presence of Bladefall which is just obscenely broken. Again, the original premise of this thread is to recognize that melee doesn't really stand an honest chance against a ranged character for the majority of the game. Things sorta equalize towards the very endgame when we're talking about .01% level of gear, but at that point you can make any build work with that amount of gear.
Last edited by allbusiness on Jan 13, 2016, 7:33:16 AM
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allbusiness wrote:
c
You just admitted to ranged being cheaper to build



which doesnt mean anything of much consiquence, and certainly does not excuse people in this thread talking complete fiction, you people should know better than to sit here and claim the utterly ridiculous things that have been claimed in this thread.

virtually everyone can afford an attack weapon that does damage, you can get high armour rares for very little cost that trivialize hard hitting bosses. Its more expensive because you might actually need to buy the gear for a few chaos ya. thats true but its so far from making any meaningful statement that backs up the nonsense of this thread that I dont know why you even bother mentioning it.


You are at a point where you are basically saying nothing and the nothing you are saying in no way helps out the absolutely fictitious nonsense in this thread that I commented on.


Melee doesnt stand a chance against a ranged character for the majority of the game? What are you even talking about? PvP? Stand a chance against? Melee can just faceroll the entire game from start to red tier maps like its an utter joke, so what possible meaning can any statement you make about melees comparative strength have? Ultimately it doesnt end with a picture of the game where theres a problem with melee in general. "Oh my ranged build spent 10 less chaos and facerolled everything slightly faster". Ok, thats fine, what point is being made with that statement? There is no point that means anything at all contained within that observation.

Attacks scale from weapons and are more gear dependant than spells. This is a problem for melee that is a really big deal, but for bows we forget this exists because bows are ranged and we dont want to accept any negatives apply to them because it doesnt fit our agenda. Melee really expensive its so bad, and then we compare their clear speed to 6L shavs vaal sparkers. Melee cant do hard map bosses! Expect for the ones that can, theres melee builds out there who can afk uber atziri, literally, they do not move they just stand there and she piles on everything shes got for half an hour and cant kill them. Melee is really slow, apart from reave and blades and flicker and the melee skills that are not slow and do not suit our agenda here, we are discounting those because they show what we are saying is utter nonsense. Melee too expensive yet I find enough currency in 1 days farming to make a melee character with decent damage that can afk map bosses like colonnade carnage....


yeah yeah I know the arguments mate, meaningless garbage.
There is another point in favor of ranged vs melee that favor ranged for clearpeed is looting.


Noticed this lately on my coc cyclone, i always have to backtrack to loot some stuff because I kill on my way and often stuff die behind me.

While as a ranged or a caster I clear ahead of me thus looting as I move. You would not think about it but this is HUGE...


Also a crit physical bow is the easiest thing to play (and is really strong for the investement)and the only problem it has actually is reflect.

MY last build was a crit tornado shot and I leveled to 87 in a breeze , i did not even do tier7+ map... now on my coc cyclone build i'm struglling getting to 87 and i have to run tier 8+ for the exp to be noticable and I'm dying (not often) to unexpected stuff (getting stuff in wall,shot gunned) which I dont even bother on my ranegd at all.

Comparatively to my bow build it feels like a chore.... (and my melee char is more geared, more survival and more damage)
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ffogell wrote:


While as a ranged or a caster I clear ahead of me thus looting as I move. You would not think about it but this is HUGE...


no its not
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Snorkle_uk wrote:
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ffogell wrote:


While as a ranged or a caster I clear ahead of me thus looting as I move. You would not think about it but this is HUGE...


no its not



well if its not the case for you ,it is for me on my coc cyclone build vs my ranged build.
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ACGIFT wrote:

Yeah, how readily Fortify was co-opted for casters is kinda sad. An easy solution would be to prohibit the Fortify gem from supporting MOVEMENT melee skills. (barring Cyclone, akin to the Haku mission rule) It would end the silly meta of "all casters focus knives so they can just use Whirling Blades+Fortify now."



Sometimes I wonder why people suggest things without thinking of the consequences, you realize that wb+fortify isn't the only way to gain the buff. Some people, for example that use the atziri's axe have leap slam linked with fortify, endurance charge on melee stun and faster attacks, your simply nerfing a melee build because you didn't think of the consequences of that.

Not sure if you've done WB without having attackspeed on on a pure caster, its "fast" but not insanely fast your still in many circumstances putting your character at risk, at least of taking "more" damage then they would have otherwise gotten.



What actually gets me is people are complaining about an interaction that will LITERALLY be free when ascendancy hits for one of the duelist classes. In addition its the SAME one that will likely be "best" for an overall party buffer\tanky support.

Take a look for yourself....

https://i.imgur.com/Z9SUJpf.jpg
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Last edited by goetzjam on Jan 13, 2016, 10:07:40 AM
Imo in this game clear speed are a way to high considering most ranged attacks.
Without touching initial hit's damage clear speed can be tuned down nearly to melee clear speed. It could be done by reducing projectiles damage by 25% less by each enemy hit with same projectile, and reducing pierce chance after each pierced enemy by same projectile by 25% less.

Speaking about some bosses, it's not ranged builds problem that boss is killed trivially, its boss problem by not capable of dealing with ranged builds at all.

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