Defense Choices, SO HARD TO CHOOSE

Evasion/Acrobatics with pseudo armour and enough leech to get back to full life in between big hits is the way to go imo. I also use endurance charges but they are a lot harder to get for bow chars. Ive got 13k evasion with grace 44% dodge 46% spell dodge.




I think this setup is a lot stronger than one that forgoes acrobatics in favor of high armour.

lol, thats the reality of lightning coil isnt it. Yes its probably better than your amour chest on your armour build but its rarely used like that because its even better for replacing your evasion chest on your evasion build.


In standard I have no 6 link daresso chest, no Hyre, no Carcass Jack, no cheribums, coils?...





thats how much better coil is than the alternatives, and every coil character I have is evasion + acrobatics. Why wouldnt you basically, with a taste of hate you mitigate mad physical damage, you might as well then avoid 75% of incoming attacks on top of it and be ridiculous.

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XCodesLIVE wrote:

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gtrans wrote:

The lower the damage is the much more useful your armor becomes. Redirecting 40% of the initial hit will make it exponentially easier for you to mitigate the remaining damage.

Talking of absurdity, how much will that chest that you keep blabbering about will cost? An LC is a few chaos. And when exactly did I say I wanted to use LC with IR? If I wanted to use LC I wouldn't go IR. I am talking about Daresso's Defiance and IR. Instead of going evasion and hope that entropy is by your side, you just take damage but in very small amount due to armor and endurance charges. Lastly, I never heard of an aura that could give you a flat 2.6k armor.

If you say you wouldn't go IR with LC, then that's basically the entire point I was making about LC: Stacking Armor with LC is inefficient because, while your Armor reduces a larger proportion of physical damage, you're taking less physical damage that needs mitigating in the first place. There's basically no point whatsoever in getting more than 6k-10k armor with Lightning Coil. All the rest of your defense at that point should be going into Block and Evasion.

As for Daresso's and IR, the reason that doesn't work has been explained already. You basically don't get Endurance Charges with Daresso's and IR, which will greatly reduce the effectiveness of your armor.

Wrong!

Stacking Armor with LC = the best solution to physical damage mitigation. I'll explain it to you because you are clearly drifting into some nonsense.

When you take a hit using LC, 40% gets redirected first THEN the remaining 60% is mitigated by armor. So the hit gets smaller which means a high armor rating is about 2x more potent than if you had no LC.

So I will repeat myself, the smaller the hit, the more you mitigate with armor.


-15k armor with LC will act like 38.4% reduction on a 2400 hit (why 2400? because 1600 of the hit is redirected towards lightning resist). That's 1478 physical and 350 lightning damage taken.

Calculations: 15 000/(15 000+10*2400) = 0.384% (38.4% reduction)
(With 5 endurance charges: 43.8% reduction on a 1920 hit = 1080 physical and 350 lightning)


-30k armor without LC will act like 42.8% reduction on a 4000 hit. That's 2288 physical damage taken.

Calculations: 30 000/(30 000+10*4000) = 0.428% (42.8% reduction)
(With 5 endurance charges: 48.3% reduction on a 3200 hit = 1548 physical damage)

On both instances, if you add endurance charges, LC is still superior. So much for "If you have 20k armor with LC, you'd be better off just wearing a rare chest and running with 25k-30k armor, instead." I even took a lower armor value of 15k using LC comparing it to 30k using a rare chest. Please make sure you know the game thoroughly before commenting. You look like a wounded bird now.

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gtrans wrote:

Stacking Armor with LC = the best solution to physical damage mitigation.

I dont think the situation is so black and white.

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gtrans wrote:

When you take a hit using LC, 40% gets redirected first THEN the remaining 60% is mitigated by armor. So the hit gets smaller which means a high armor rating is about 2x more potent than if you had no LC.

This is true but armour has diminishing returns. Monsters in lvl 80+ maps with increased crit damage or any number of increased damage mods/ curse effects your going to have on you means your going to have to tank some really big physical hits some times.

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gtrans wrote:

-15k armor with LC will act like 38.4% reduction on a 2400 hit (why 2400? because 1600 of the hit is redirected towards lightning resist). That's 1478 physical and 350 lightning damage taken.

Calculations: 15 000/(15 000+10*2400) = 0.384% (38.4% reduction)
(With 5 endurance charges: 43.8% reduction on a 1920 hit = 1080 physical and 350 lightning)


-30k armor without LC will act like 42.8% reduction on a 4000 hit. That's 2288 physical damage taken.

Calculations: 30 000/(30 000+10*4000) = 0.428% (42.8% reduction)
(With 5 endurance charges: 48.3% reduction on a 3200 hit = 1548 physical damage)

On both instances, if you add endurance charges, LC is still superior. So much for "If you have 20k armor with LC, you'd be better off just wearing a rare chest and running with 25k-30k armor, instead." I even took a lower armor value of 15k using LC comparing it to 30k using a rare chest. Please make sure you know the game thoroughly before commenting. You look like a wounded bird now.

The OP stated the character is using a bow, realistically they can at best get somewhere around 13,000 armour using a lightning coil + IR most will be lucky to hit around 10k armour. I have personally seen characters with 10k HP and no armour be one shot by physical damage in high maps.

10,000 x .6 = 6000 or 4000 physical damage converted to lightning damage

13,000/(13,000 + 10*6000) = .178 (17.8% reduction) or 4932 damage taken out of 6000. Also 40% that lightning coil changed to lightning damage gets mitigated by resistance at 75% 4000*.25 = 1000 for a total of 5932 damage still taken. if we consider endurance charges which a ranger would most likely have a maximum of 4 thats another 16% reduction 4932* .84 = 4142.88 + 1000 lightning damage = 5142.88

Most characters will have just enough life to survive something like this (this is assuming a worst case scenario where you didnt get your taste of hate or granite flask activated in time) If you get hit in quick succession with 2 hits like this your going to die. Rangers simply can not stack high amounts of armour like a FB cycloner or some similar build that uses a shield.

in this case would you rather take 18% reduction or if you invest into evasion/acrobatics you can reach 13k evasion and have about a 50% chance to evade attacks. Add to that 40% chance to dodge and now you only have a 30% chance to be hit by an attack. You also get 30% chance to dodge spells (which include the physical ones as well). Most rangers deal high amounts of damage and part of their defence is the ability to quickly clear pack of monsters. I would argue that evasion/acrobatics in this case is far stronger than investing in armour for a late game character. Yes armour can be effective but its not always the best choice and personally I dont think its usually the best choice either when you consider how hard your going to get hit at one point or another.

6000 physical damage from a rare monster? Don't push it. If a rare did that much damage, I wouldn't be playing this game anymore. Kole doing that, id understand but that's too far fetched for any typical modded rares.

(btw im OP)

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gtrans wrote:

6000 physical damage from a rare monster? Don't push it. If a rare did that much damage, I wouldn't be playing this game anymore. Kole doing that, id understand but that's too far fetched for any typical modded rares.

(btw im OP)

Do you have another account that you play on because I doubt you've experienced the content I'm talking about at lvl 85. How many t14 maps do you run because I've ran hundreds.

I've had a character using a legacy kaom's heart 1 shot by an archer in a wasteland map. 9k hp gone with a single arrow. There were lots of streamers also dying while using high hp pools and 15k + armour as their only defence.

Dying with 9k hp to untreated damage? Sure even a 12k char would rip, I don't disregard that. But right now I'm saying if you still get hit for 6000 physical AFTER coil, 15k armor and endurance charges, that's where we have a serious problem. Imo you need THE worst case scenario to get those kind of hits from a modded rare. Vul/shock/monster dmg/crit as map mods and phys aura/extra dmg/crit as monster affix. (Not sure of map crit and monster crit stack)

To answer your question, no I havn't player t14+ maps. Atziri is the closest to t4 minus the rippy mods. Best I did was t12.

Go for daresso's cwdt inc duration immo call its the best setup i think

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gtrans wrote:

Dying with 9k hp to untreated damage? Sure even a 12k char would rip, I don't disregard that. But right now I'm saying if you still get hit for 6000 physical AFTER coil, 15k armor and endurance charges, that's where we have a serious problem. Imo you need THE worst case scenario to get those kind of hits from a modded rare. Vul/shock/monster dmg/crit as map mods and phys aura/extra dmg/crit as monster affix. (Not sure of map crit and monster crit stack)

To answer your question, no I havn't player t14+ maps. Atziri is the closest to t4 minus the rippy mods. Best I did was t12.

Our disagreement about how much physical damage you can take aside even if we dropped that number down to 4k or 3k physical damages per hit after mitigation 2 or 3 shots at this much damage will kill most people. Those spike monsters that explode when you kill them are a great example of this. In high maps they can hit really hard, most people can only kill a few at a time because multiple spikes hitting them at the same time would kill their character. The damage isnt being mitigated enough to make enough of a difference and when you consider that with evasions entropy system your a lot less likely to take hits like that in quick succession armour dosnt seem as favorable.

The 20% extra mitigation from armour isnt as useful to some characters because coil + toh + end charges give you enough mitigation already and simply not being hit 70+% of the time allows you to kill monsters before they can kill you.