How California Leads the world in education

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Disrupted wrote:

I agree with what you are saying, Its just the mindless judgment people pass on some cases that really bother me. People are too quick to label a person either a criminal or a victim and they often let feelings take over facts.

This will keep happening if we don't treat the whole thing as a science. The way the prison system works is stupid in almost every country.

Know thy enemy, indeed.

That being said, it's weird to heard about people that think that someone is a victim, at least in my experience. You must be talking of extremely naive people.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Disrupted wrote:

I agree with what you are saying, Its just the mindless judgment people pass on some cases that really bother me. People are too quick to label a person either a criminal or a victim and they often let feelings take over facts.

This will keep happening if we don't treat the whole thing as a science. The way the prison system works is stupid in almost every country.

Know thy enemy, indeed.

That being said, it's weird to heard about people that think that someone is a victim, at least in my experience. You must be talking of extremely naive people.

real science I hope, I see a lot of "studies" been used nowadays that wont pass double blind tests and are clearly suspicious. A lot of people wish to push lies in order to further their agenda. and often times some studies are outright forgotten because it does not fit with the results people want.

see studies on nature vs nurture and relative IQ relation to genetics in adoptive families, there are countless studies that show genetics play a more vital role than nurture, but that is not labeled as "nice" I guess due to a fear that the general public will discriminate orphans. For that matter, on the whole genetic issue, there's a lot more than just that, such as violent tendencies and whatnot (I find it pretty funny that the only "socially acceptable" part of genetics is diseases and disorders, when many of them actually affect the parts they are unwilling to recognize). Then again dont get me wrong, some breeds of dogs have violent tendencies, but if raised properly can be the sweetest pups.
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or the ever "scare-every-pro-slutinesss-activist-ever" study on male micro-chimerism in women without sons.

Objective truth shouldnt be hidden just because its not "nice".
Reminds me as well of the many fake "this great achiever had autism" claims that some associations do in order to make the parents not give up on their child. Im sorry but the fact is, that, sadly, an autist will never achieve anything and function fully in society. I think its a bit offensive to think parents would just give up on their children otherwise.

and no, aspergers is not autism, im talking about real autism, not some form of "autism light" definition that was invented in order to scam soccer moms who cannot understand what a different personality or interest in hobbies is.



Yes, I am talking of extremely naive people, but if you look closely you'll see that naiveté is something very common. People are usually fed false information or half-truths through corrupt media and whatnot. the average citizen does not care enough to research. but its the citizen who wont research but still act on a situation that is the worst.
There are people nowadays that actually believe there's systematic racism in the police in the US.
There are people who will uphold violent thugs as their martyrs, some of them still believe that for example, Trayvon Martin was a little kid or a honor student (he wasnt, that was his brother). Frankly american media disgusts me, they try to racebait so hard its not even funny, and ideally, I think they should be legally held for deceiving the public.

the glorification of the worst bothers me greatly. I see a lot of excusing the violent ones, and, as someone who was bullied a lot and did counseling for a lot of people, it deeply disgusts me how people are so quick to remember the thugs but rarely if ever remember the innocent, and a lot of innocent die half-way. Not everybody who lives in a shitty neighbourhood resorts to stealing, not everybody resorts to violence (except self-defense)
I feel a lot of people only help to feel good about themselves, for example, in those two cases I commented on, the same people that helped the drug addict guy (when there was a local public movement to help him), tried to keep the distance from the poor kid back in the days (because he was poor).
It reminds me of facebook activism, too many a people are willing to thumb up some cause or give a little money, yet wont research about it. this is why stuff like invisible children and whatnot is "successful", there's always an endless supply of suckers. I despise con artists, but damn is their "profession" profitable.
or the refuggees case, I wonder how many of those wearing "refugees welcome" will provide shelter for one. My bet is very few of them. Most will just let the rest of the country pay.
Not that I think that refugees shouldnt be helped, that's another thing I dislike about these "good people", is how they tend to word themselves in extreme ways in order to make others who do not agree with them seem like they have opposite ways.
For the refugee crisis, each country should help AS MUCH AS IT CAN WITHIN ECONOMIC REALITY and give priority to risk groups, such as children and the elderly. Also pay close attention to people taken in, since as we know, the threat of ISIS is real and the same has already confirmed a good number of their agents are within such groups. Hell, there was a pro-ISIS rally in germany in the same day they started receiving people.
People oughta be careful, lest they be reminded of the old tale of troy through reality.
(also lets not forget the countless economic migrants from other countries who are taking advantage of the syrian crisis).
What i really wish is that everybody was good, and everybody could be helped, but reality is one cold son of a bitch.

@Disrupted: Yeah, real science. That stuff is tricky. Genetics tends to be just one part of the puzzle (free will and society are the other two). The problem is that people abused that angle in the past severely, there is a lot of "racial science" out there, so it's hard to study this without bias. The world is not prepared yet.

I thought it was more of an "autistic spectrum" rather than a rigid categorization.

About systematic racism: look, I've met my fair share of non apologetic fascists in the police (even a friend). It's a group with a high risk, as any position of power or authority. A lot of the police is fascist/racist/whatever? No, but the system is rigged so they are not accountable. I think there is a crisis of trust with police enforcement. Perception matters. Things like body cameras go a long way to improve this.

Probably you have found a lot of SJWs, slacktivists and hypocrites. The only thing I can say is: they can be fucking morons or plain evil, but some of their causes are right. They have their time because a)they suck all the attention because media, people and politicians care more about troublemakers than issues, b)there is some element of truth to what they say, and no one is robbing them from their leadership on those issues. It's like comparing Black Panther with Martin Luther King Jr. You can't make a strawman for the former to ignore the later.

In my opinion, your country has worse problems with people that don't believe that people can change rather than naive/idiots that trust too much, when it comes to "adore the thugs". Else US wouldn't be so draconian (three strikes law, death penalty, tough on crime, arresting people because drug use, etc.). Sort that mess first.

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NeroNoah wrote:

@Disrupted: Yeah, real science. That stuff is tricky. Genetics tends to be just one part of the puzzle (free will and society are the other two). The problem is that people abused that angle in the past severely, there is a lot of "racial science" out there, so it's hard to study this without bias. The world is not prepared yet.

I thought it was more of an "autistic spectrum" rather than a rigid categorization.

About systematic racism: look, I've met my fair share of non apologetic fascists in the police (even a friend). It's a group with a high risk, as any position of power or authority. A lot of the police is fascist/racist/whatever? No, but the system is rigged so they are not accountable. I think there is a crisis of trust with police enforcement. Perception matters. Things like body cameras go a long way to improve this.

Probably you have found a lot of SJWs, slacktivists and hypocrites. The only thing I can say is: they can be fucking morons or plain evil, but some of their causes are right. They have their time because a)they suck all the attention because media, people and politicians care more about troublemakers than issues, b)there is some element of truth to what they say, and no one is robbing them from their leadership on those issues. It's like comparing Black Panther with Martin Luther King Jr. You can't make a strawman for the former to ignore the later.

In my opinion, your country has worse problems with people that don't believe that people can change rather than naive/idiots that trust too much, when it comes to "adore the thugs". Else US wouldn't be so draconian (three strikes law, death penalty, tough on crime, arresting people because drug use, etc.). Sort that mess first.

Oh yes, nazi eugenics is the thing you are refering to I believe. As usual the extremes are always the worst.

Regarding police, there's pieces of shits that abuse the system, definitely. what I mean with systematic racism is that the system is not built for that (which I believe is what you are saying), I do recognize it is abused by a few, and can see lots of dumb brutes in the force, even in my country.
I think people can do something to diminish the number of cases, though I think its impossible to eradicate it from anywhere 100%.

Oh yes, I dont believe all SJWs are inherently evil, though im sure some of their "leaders" are. Probably the majority is misguided and with some really far off definitions of racism some use I'd say blatantly brainwashed. My use of the word SJW strictly refers to those who dont care about true equality, but rather want special treatment and what other form of inequality disguised under the banner of equality. (and extremist zealotry coupled with unethical moves, manipulation and damaging "the ending justifies the meanings" mentality)

Oh and in case Im understanding correctly, Im not from the US (Portugal actually), though I used to live in New Jersey for a while and got a offering of citizenship under special circumstances - which my refusal might have been one of the worst mistakes in my life, funnily enough i refused in order to give a chance to people who did not deserve such- there's a lot I dislike in the states, but there's also a lot of positives.
Though one thing I remember was that I never got disrespected so much without any reason, though i'll attribute that to the place I was living in and the people I came across.
I also met some pretty nice people. The negative experiences just tend to stand out the most.

Well, nevermind me, Im a bit too bitter and have a difficulty trusting people through a lot of shit in my life. I used to be part of the alt suicide holiday (bus stop) and saw a lot of horrible cases, too many a good person damaged heavily and never remembered, too many a case of terrible situations, some of them unsolvable.
I lost most of my love for investigation some 3 years ago after finding some terrible truths regarding 3 linked cases. and I lost my love for counseling some 7-8 years ago after saving a close friend with a gun to his head, just to realize later he was actually a "monster" (long story, but this guy would be murderer if the law allowed it, in fact, im not 100% sure he hasnt murdered ever, though Im sure he intended to kill me at some point after saving him, just to silence me because I realized he had done something horrible).

I've lost most of my eyesight and most of my childhood was ruined by other people.
It disgusts me to no end to see how many can get away with the things they did. It disgusts me more and more to remember all those cases I saw, to remember how many wished to take their lives, and how many did due to people around them, and then I see people glorifying the same kind of people that made others life a living hell, that disgusts me, be it through stupid activists who dare claim they represent a whole race or forms of media (hell, even a while ago I saw a recommended movie "attack the block", a movie that's basically a thug power trip fantasy, with only 1 redeemable character) . I cannot hide it.

I wish to be proven wrong, but I've seen too much shit from society as a whole. I know there are good people out there, I know there are people worth giving a second chance, but I cannot and will not pretend all are worth it, and that only sociopaths are unworthy (or maybe, its just that there are far more sociopaths in society than it seems? too many willing to throw innocents under the bus just to save themselves from punishment for their own crimes, and too many that have feelings only for themselves).

Regarding laws, yeah, US has some fucked up laws, being from Portugal, it kinda amazes me that some countries will arrest people due to drug use instead of getting them help. Its like... what is that even supposed to accomplish?
I'll disagree with death penalty observation, though I think it should be applied only when there's good evidence of the blame, I would not want, for example,for my taxes to be used to feed a mass murderer for all his life, and I sure as hell wouldnt want someone innocent to be killed. there's more, but Im pretty sure we'd be here all day if we were to talk about laws haha.

Sorry for my rambling, I tend to write a lot, though I dont write half as much as I used to.
Hope that gave you a little more of insight on my blatant dislike of some groups.
I really really wish I could be more positive, and I can only hope to be proven wrong on my most negative expectations, but sincerely,I find the idea a bit laughable. I probably repeated myself there, but hell, its late and I am not what I used to be. Funny thing, you'd never guess from this terrible incoherent string of words, that I used to be what some call a "grammar nazi".

It's ok, :)

I'm more of a leftie at the end when it comes to that stuff (left is really different from place to place, I'm fairly atypical in my country in that aspect, here most left people are Peronists, a very populist, misguided branch), yet you have given me a lot to think about.

About police, the system may not be built for racism, but surely is built to cover up corruption (if I'm not mistaken, I have read that the police audits the police in US, that's not a good set up), and there is a counter part to police haters: police ass kissers and apologists (a cultural element that pretty much can be a get out of the jail card for them for the lack of scrutiny).

About SJW: it's really hard to distinguish morons and misguided people from those who don't really care and exploit good causes for personal benefit. Rather than assume, we just have to call people in their bullshit. Due process, blah blah blah.

About the death penalty, even the "evident" situations can get weird (see the vivisection example in Japan). That being said, I wouldn't know what to do with a jailed Hitler.

You had a hard life, it's understandable you feel that way, so I don't think it's apropiate to expect for a change on your views. What I can say is that you should doubt your judgement about how redeemable people are. It's a complex problem, and I don't think we'll see good answers in our lifes. It's better to take this in a probabilistic fashion, rather than a deterministic one. Historically speaking, people tend to be wrong about how to solve crime.

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Raycheetah wrote:

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That_which_has_no_life wrote:

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4640349-181/rohnert-park-cotati-schools-rethink?page=1

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It departs from the traditional A to F scale in which students receive F’s for scores below 59 percent. Instead, the scale awards F’s only for scores below 20 percent.

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Cotati-Rohnert Park school administrators say the change reflects a national movement to encourage students to strive rather than demoralizing them with low grades that make success seem out of reach.

Because it's better to feel good than to actually get a good education and California is all about feeling good.

But, what about those poor, special snowflakes who still get under 20%? What about their self-esteem? What about their value to society?

NO child left behind! ='[.]'=

There's a solution for that too - They sacrifice a rare (3 pages or more) essay to a Dark Education Shrine and their grade is boosted to 20%.

I got an alligator and two pumpkins in math.

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NeroNoah wrote:

You had a hard life, it's understandable you feel that way, so I don't think it's apropiate to expect for a change on your views. What I can say is that you should doubt your judgement about how redeemable people are. It's a complex problem, and I don't think we'll see good answers in our lifes. It's better to take this in a probabilistic fashion, rather than a deterministic one. Historically speaking, people tend to be wrong about how to solve crime.

Oh, I doubt, no worries, my life RNG can just be bad hahaha. But my expectations are quite grim.
Positive side of it, is that I dont set my hopes high to be disappointed, and some cases can pleasantly surprise me. each case is a case anyway and still would rather look at them in-depth. but truth is im too tired too look at cases anymore, so I'd rather not pass judgment. I think you have the right idea by not passing judgement without knowing them, but having a positive outlook on people, I just wish everybody could be like that (me included, since I only fill half of those requirements).

Well, this went a bit off-topic. and would just like to say just in case, that I dont want anyone's pity. I verily much dislike such, even if I understand people do it out of good. (not saying you are necessarily doing that, but in case you are, please dont)

Everyone has hardships. I have mines too (but they are mostly about externalities and things that happen to my family). You had it worse but I can't really pity you, the world is the world and few are happy. Just keep fighting the good fight.

I think I was the one that derailed this thread at the beginning, sorry.

It just rub me the wrong way how the whole educational problem can be seen (as I wrote before, the fact that we treat like shit people that fail with education and we don't give them meaningful choices is part of the puzzle of grade inflation and all that crap; we blame the wrong part of the system for problems, there cannot be strict personal responsability under such harsh conditions for failure). So the rant about personal responsability vs. external factors, and blah blah blah.