Rebalance Crit damage and the mechanics. (RT vs Crit + Poison Arrow)

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Poutsos wrote:

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qquno wrote:

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lolozori wrote:

Is there anygame elsewhere than in POE you can have 80-60-50% chance to crit?

Diablo 3? TL2? And a lot others?

And have been criticed for it.

Point was high crit chance is not unique and in fact quite frequent in games (ARPGs).

Also criticed by whom?

I like high crit chance, its natural and consistent/predictable from gameplay and balance point of view.

If you think low crit chance and high crit multi is a way to go, well, what about reflect-one-shots when crit / leech (no leech since low DPS when no crit) / acuity (no leech since no crit) / surgeon flasks and such.

Even if above shit is going to be fixed, why the hell is going such inconsistent crit when you can simply go non-crit and just get increase damage from the tree and get CONSISTENT damage? Rrrright, there is none.

And btw, what about nerfing RT? Where is disadvantage in this node? Can't crit? They have zero crit chance anyway, so where is drawback unlike others notables? Hey, balance team!

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qquno wrote:

Point was high crit chance is not unique and in fact quite frequent in games (ARPGs).

Also criticed by whom?

I like high crit chance, its natural and consistent/predictable from gameplay and balance point of view.

If you think low crit chance and high crit multi is a way to go, well, what about reflect-one-shots when crit / leech (no leech since low DPS when no crit) / acuity (no leech since no crit) / surgeon flasks and such.

Even if above shit is going to be fixed, why the hell is going such inconsistent crit when you can simply go non-crit and just get increase damage from the tree and get CONSISTENT damage? Rrrright, there is none.

And btw, what about nerfing RT? Where is disadvantage in this node? Can't crit? They have zero crit chance anyway, so where is drawback unlike others notables? Hey, balance team!

While D3 and Torchlight are arpg they are not really part of the "old school" sphere GGG is claiming POE come from.

Also crit in poe are not "inconsistent", pretty much a good end-game build will always crit and when they don t items help them to keep charges up for continuous high dps.

In old school games and RPG a crit always been something rare and meaningful.
YOu could crit when you get a d20 or when you are really lucky in games. It is logical something called "critical" would be rare and powerful.

In POE crit are not rare, it is even so common that people get pissed if they don t crit lol.

About RT,
If crit in POE was like a very rare thing then of course RT should actually disapear from the tree.
Anyway with the reflect pretty much gone from the game, going rt when you can crit almost all the time is kind of silly.

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qquno wrote:

Point was high crit chance is not unique and in fact quite frequent in games (ARPGs).

Also criticed by whom?

I like high crit chance, its natural and consistent/predictable from gameplay and balance point of view.

If you think low crit chance and high crit multi is a way to go, well, what about reflect-one-shots when crit / leech (no leech since low DPS when no crit) / acuity (no leech since no crit) / surgeon flasks and such.

Even if above shit is going to be fixed, why the hell is going such inconsistent crit when you can simply go non-crit and just get increase damage from the tree and get CONSISTENT damage? Rrrright, there is none.

And btw, what about nerfing RT? Where is disadvantage in this node? Can't crit? They have zero crit chance anyway, so where is drawback unlike others notables? Hey, balance team!

In 99% of RPGs, both video games and pen and paper, you cannot reach 95% chance to crit. Not remotely. That's not under discussion, it's a fact.

Critical strikes by definition are not supposed to be normal, consistent damage. It's the headshot, the backstab, the riposte, these kind of things.

What about reflect and crit? Yeah you have to be worried about it. Your reward? 5-10x more damage. Nothing to fix there.

Why not going RT to get consistent damage? Because your consistent damage will be 5-10x less

The downside of RT? 5-10x less damage

:)

^^ well theres facebreaker builds but also in the current meta not having huge life and or armour is suicide unless your ranged. I could get to 200000 + ttdps with crit cyclone and a mirrored dagger and some people have got much higher but when things one shot you with phys dmg in l73 + maps whats the point.

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lolozori wrote:

While D3 and Torchlight are arpg they are not really part of the "old school" sphere GGG is claiming POE come from.

You asked for games which use high crit chance, I answered, now you trying to bring some nonsense about "old school", you know its quite a weak attempt to deny the fact what high crit is common in games and in ARPGs particulary, I do not buy it.

Also, PoE is not an old school, luckily. PoE is a weird mix of differnt adopted ideas from different games, there is some new and unique ofc. Its probably the best ARPG around unfortunately, unfortunately since there is few issues like obession with economy and gating content and limiting crafting too much by wealth. Some may find its fine or ever good, I do not like it. So the moment there would be released any ARPG with similar depth as PoE but with less obession with economy - I would quit without regrets. But there would not :)

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qquno wrote:

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lolozori wrote:

While D3 and Torchlight are arpg they are not really part of the "old school" sphere GGG is claiming POE come from.

You asked for games which use high crit chance, I answered, now you trying to bring some nonsense about "old school", you know its quite a weak attempt to deny the fact what high crit is common in games and in ARPGs particulary, I do not buy it.

I talked about caviar, you answered me with pasta.

Yea you can find infinite crit also in candy crush I guess you could find something like infinite crit, does not mean it is used the way it should.

You don t understand that Crit is supposed to be some kind of super lucky shot of a life time , it was what crit originaly been created for.

In D2 if my memory are correct Critical strike was a skill used by amazon, that give only maximum 2time more damage and chance to crit is capped at each level. Can t remember if crit existed for other classes and how it worked.

In D&D, vampire the masquarade, the dark eye, whatever rpg... Crit always ALWAYS been something you can pull once a party.
(well in D&D you can pull crit every now and then but still you need the D20 to favor you+ there is also critical miss in RPG)


Imagine if POE had critical miss? you one-shot yourself just clicking on the mouse XD

Whatever just saying CRIT in is original and pure form in the RPG world is made to be a super lucky shot.

D3 well it is made for 12 year old on redbull, of course there everything is crit and speedy stuff.

Ok... so what? Seriously, you can argue for anything in a fantasy game. Thematically it might make more sense if the crabs on the beach were flying unicorns. But so what? Doesn't mean it actually needs to change.

Dear GGG, I'd really like you to fiddle with thousands of variables in your game because thematically it seems unreasonable that your game doesn't echo the way other games do things. Even though it's your product and may well be within its rights to take a unique approach.

Fact remains, it's easier than ever to get an RT build reasonably on par with a crit build damagewise, and way ahead on life. And that fiddling further with such a deeply ingrained system (cast on crit says hi, by the way) is likely to break even more things that aren't already broken from 2.0's cavalier approach to 'balance'.

Maybe they should change the phrase 'critical strike' to 'hard hit' so you feel less offended about how often it can happen?

So, you want the shadow character off the tree/game ? That's right?

Also people are missing that critical strike has 2 times accuracy check in PoE

Once before you do a strike, there will be a critical strike check, if you pass that and geta critical strike roll, there will be a second accuracy check. If you cant pass second one you just deal 'normal damage'

A %90 critical chance is approximately, 73-74% in practice.(90 crit chanxe x 0.9(accuracy check nr.1) x 0.9 accuracy check nr.2) And that is when you have around 3600-4000 accuracy. Imagine the investment in Tree for 90% critical strike chance and accuracy. Tell me an approxmiate number and think about the balance between RT vs crit again.

this turns out another 'poor hates rich' thread. 'Rch boys and their crits :(((' Q_Q

Instead of blaming other builds, people gotta find out how strong 'defense stacking' in 2.0 is.

RT is very strong, veeery strong.

I think crit vs. RT can't compete in terms of damage. If you want more damage go for crit. If you want to invest points into something else go for RT.

RT has many advantages
- more consistent damage
- makes you immune against blind
- makes your on hit effects more efficient and reliable
- foes with high evasion? Enfeable on you? Not big deal

Only think I would like to see improved on RT is applying elemental status ailments, because 10% chance nearby imo is not enough. One notable behind the keystone would be nice. I suggest 10% chance to apply elemental status ailments + 20% increased duration.