Rebalance Crit damage and the mechanics. (RT vs Crit + Poison Arrow)

At the end of the day the net crit dps (crit chance x crit multiplier) needs to be substantially higher than RT to compensate for lower survivability, passive point investment, and gear investment.

If crits are too easy and frequent then fine - lower the crit chance, but you will have to increase the crit multiplier.

My argument is that past a certain point if the crit dps is too low vs. RT - then the cost tradeoff (points and gear) and survivability tradeoff will no longer make sense. Removing status ailments from crit will make this even worse by reducing damage (shock, ignite) and reducing survivability (freeze) for crit builds even further.

I agree with a few of the posts here. Not many.

Crit isn't amazing at the moment, nor does it suck. Yes, there's bonuses to it recently (hits can't be evaded, only good for CoC), but many negatives added. See anyone walking around with 1000%+ crit multi? That used to happen.

When I play the few builds I feel are capable of going to 100, all being fairly in-line-with-meta-boring, do I want crit? Generally not. I could do crit cyclone, and give up 2k life. WHY WOULD I GIVE UP 2K LIFE? Killing monsters faster is almost never the issue stopping progression nowadays.

Be careful what you ask for. Play 50 different builds. Count how many were crit, and not just how fast they gained xp but how often they died. Then do it again, and I bet you'll be going for fewer crit builds, presuming you went crit-heavy to start with.

Also, I think it's truly hilarious that you have a go at crit and then poison arrow in the same post. Seriously.

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davidnn5 wrote:

I agree with a few of the posts here. Not many.

Crit isn't amazing at the moment, nor does it suck. Yes, there's bonuses to it recently (hits can't be evaded, only good for CoC), but many negatives added. See anyone walking around with 1000%+ crit multi? That used to happen.

When I play the few builds I feel are capable of going to 100, all being fairly in-line-with-meta-boring, do I want crit? Generally not. I could do crit cyclone, and give up 2k life. WHY WOULD I GIVE UP 2K LIFE? Killing monsters faster is almost never the issue stopping progression nowadays.

Be careful what you ask for. Play 50 different builds. Count how many were crit, and not just how fast they gained xp but how often they died. Then do it again, and I bet you'll be going for fewer crit builds, presuming you went crit-heavy to start with.

Also, I think it's truly hilarious that you have a go at crit and then poison arrow in the same post. Seriously.

this.

In theory and following common sense and logic:

Crit should be a lucky charm mechanism, you crit very very rarely but once you do>1 shot




Nowdays in POE,

You could say crit used to be squishy but now in PVE there is no-more pack of reflect, no-more op lighting thorns.

It would be logical that GGG lower the crit chance on tree a little more (and raise crit multi then) now that dying from reflect is almost impossible if you play well.

Hit can t be evaded from vagan made crit even more broken strong.
Some build using those daggers don t even need dex/accuracy anymore, just stack crit and crit chances.

It is so strange GGG decided that Crit could also have the power of RT without the malus.

Why going RT at all when you can go crit+vagan?
So broken and strange design idea.


For a middle ground solution:

If GGG is not ready to nerf crit a little bit more on tree, they should then think to give monsters to be able to curse enfeeble or blind a little bit more often now (blind would be a better solution considering enfeeble affect also low dps RT users).

(why not? a good player would have to carry curse flask all the time, it is then a more skill based approach)



Crit is a lot favorised by the devs, they always nerf monsters reflect abilities because player find it more fun to melt things before the program can even react.


On a side note, why casters can crit and never miss+ they are not affected by blind at all?
In my opinion blind should be universal counter vs all crit.

It is very unfair for melee crit and ranged that blind is not affecting casters.

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lolozori wrote:

In theory and following common sense and logic:

Crit should be a lucky charm mechanism, you crit very very rarely but once you do>1 shot




Nowdays in POE,

You could say crit used to be squishy but now in PVE there is no-more pack of reflect, no-more op lighting thorns.

It would be logical that GGG lower the crit chance on tree a little more (and raise crit multi then) now that dying from reflect is almost impossible if you play well.

Hit can t be evaded from vagan made crit even more broken strong.
Some build using those daggers don t even need dex/accuracy anymore, just stack crit and crit chances.

It is so strange GGG decided that Crit could also have the power of RT without the malus.

Why going RT at all when you can go crit+vagan?
So broken and strange design idea.


For a middle ground solution:

If GGG is not ready to nerf crit a little bit more on tree, they should then think to give monsters to be able to curse enfeeble or blind a little bit more often now (blind would be a better solution considering enfeeble affect also low dps RT users).

(why not? a good player would have to carry curse flask all the time, it is then a more skill based approach)



Crit is a lot favorised by the devs, they always nerf monsters reflect abilities because player find it more fun to melt things before the program can even react.


On a side note, why casters can crit and never miss+ they are not affected by blind at all?
In my opinion blind should be universal counter vs all crit.

It is very unfair for melee crit and ranged that blind is not affecting casters.

people who play RT really despises Crit builds, jeez. trust me Crit is not OP. It doesnt require a buff but not a nerf either. Its on the edge on the both sides.

Enjoy, a very high geared crit build get rekt in high level map:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em2i4-hA4Jg

Its not here dee kodr here failing, its old crit meta which is failing. HF.

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Rupenus wrote:

people who play RT really despises Crit builds, jeez. trust me Crit is not OP. It doesnt require a buff but not a nerf either. Its on the edge on the both sides.

Enjoy, a very high geared crit build get rekt in high level map:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em2i4-hA4Jg

Its not here dee kodr here failing, its old crit meta which is failing. HF.

Don t know why you say that.
Monsters able to curse enfeeble more often and blind to be universal vs all crit is not at all broken.

And a lot of RT user have less than those 5k life this crit user on video seem to have.

Most crit users are anyway using those flask that refill during crit and having anti-curse flask is not at all gamebreaking for crit users.

Also If ever crit chance would be nerfed I am in favor to raise Crit multi. SO even if oyu crit less, each crit would still one shot.

Making PVE monsters smarter vs crit users, making them use more often curses would greatly improve the game experience.

Still in theory and by the book a crit should never be close to 50% chance to happend. It is a fault in POE gameplay.

Is there anygame elsewhere than in POE you can have 80-60-50% chance to crit?


I don t even mind if crit is super nerfed that GGG erase RT.
Make crit a 10% chance max and make it impossible to have RT on tree or craft in the game (those RT unique would also suddenly become much more interesting), make people who spec in crit go for crit multiplier only instead.

When i was playing PoE, crit was my favourite playstyle. However i always knew that it was flawed? Why? There is no critical damage in this game. It was too easy to reach high enough crit chance, so it ended up being your normal consistent damage. I made this post a while ago on the issue. Granted i have not played the awakening, so i do not know if the post can still be valid, but this is my view on crit.


"Firstly i want to mention that i do beleive that crit playstyle should be the highest DPS playstyle in the game. Not arguing there. I am just arguing the means to do it. For example let's assume a double strike crit character with 200K DPS, that has 95% crit chance and 400% multiplier. I am not arguing that 200K is too high. I am arguing that this character should have indeed 200K DPS but with -say- 40%(or less)crit chance and 1000% multiplier. This way, while you do have the same DPS there are downsides, which also encourage different playstyle:

1) The damage is not as reliable. You can be unlucky and not score a crit in a critical situation. This is something to consider as a player

2) Reflect will again be dangerous and not trivial as it is now. EG. you will need to search for reflect mobs and not blindly offscreen everything. Also special precautions should be made to run reflect maps.

3) Several situations like evasive monsters or maps with enfeeble will furtherly gimp a crit character's effectiveness.

This practically makes the playing style different, and creates decent trade offs to -say- an 80K DPS resolute tecnique double strike character that has 100% reliable damage in all situations, without actually nerfing crit.

So i do not beleive that the actual DPS of crit builds should be nerfed, but the way that this damage is delivered should be changed. A player with 95% crit+90% accuracy, has very little difference in terms of efficiency and gameplay compared to a Resolute Technique player. The only difference is that he does 5-10x damage."

While I agree with what Charan and Poutsos are saying, this whole thing is a balancing mess that should have been ironed out WAY back when PoE was starting, or at the very least revisited for 2.0.

Drastically changing crit chance and crit multiplier now is a clusterFUCK:

- Rebalancing all base crit chance on weapons
- Rebalancing crit chance of high attack speed vs. low attack speed of the same weapon type
- Rebalancing power charges
- Rebalancing passive tree nodes
- Rebalancing crit mods on gear (rings, amulets)
- Rebalancing active skill gems and support gems

And more importantly:
- Rebalancing instant life leech for crit (which was obviously a big problem)
- Rebalancing reflect
- Rebalancing status ailments (particularly shock)
- Rebalancing flask refills (if necessary)
- Rebalancing cast-on-crit builds

All of these drastic changes. Too many variables and there is no way GGG will get this right, it could take over a full year to implement.

I think it is a bit late now for all this.

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lolozori wrote:

Is there anygame elsewhere than in POE you can have 80-60-50% chance to crit?

Diablo 3? TL2? And a lot others?

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

I have argued almost from the start that crit chance needs to be reduced and crit multi upped. Lower chance of kicking in, bigger kick when it does. That, folks, is a 'crit'.

And that's coming from someone who made one of the higher crit chance, lower level weapons to be able (totally coincidentally) to handle maps with the right build (although I haven't checked if folks are still doing that with the eleprolif adjustments). I believe Doomfletch also can, also with a crit multi heavy build.

It's all moot and academic at this point. High crit chance to a point of expectation is just one more piece of candy GGG gave to the players and cannot take away with an inordinate amount of crying and tantrums.

Agreed. However, GGG was an inexperienced company with great work ethic and ideas, still inexperienced though, and i do not beleive they had forseen this. Mostly they are balancing according to their best(at least top tier) players. When Invalesco made his legendary crit dagger character on closed beta, he had like 40% crit chance with the top gear available at the time. I do not think that GGG at that point expected that players will be able to scale their crit chance up to 80-95% so easily.

I had forseen back in early 2014 that these 3 modfiers will lead to unexpected(by the developers) broken builds, and will be balance nightmare for GGG. I am speaking of the 3 modifiers that allow you to scale ALL damage available to you, being flat or percentage, physical or elemental.

1)Crit chance/multiplier
2)Attack Speed
3)Spell damage applied to attack damage through Crown of Eyes.

-let alone the combination of all 3

I think there are reasons that in alot of other games attack speed, and critical modifiers are either static or have hard caps. Caps and/or dimishing return systems are not always bad.

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qquno wrote:

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lolozori wrote:

Is there anygame elsewhere than in POE you can have 80-60-50% chance to crit?

Diablo 3? TL2? And a lot others?

And have been criticed for it.