Standard's Economy right Now

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zachatta wrote:

You are playing standard worrying about the economy........

QFT ^ ...

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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deteego wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Its actually GGG's fault more than anything, theyve made alot of poor decisions regarding changes and additions in 2.0.

Gearing is hyper accelerated right now because of these changes, causing gear to cost less and orbs to be worth less.

The worst change made to the game was adding in divination cards, some of the other poor changes are the over saturation of unique mods, these are your inner treasure, singularity, etc. Theres also the problem of ghost busting which is absolutely broken still. Bloodline is also a big problem too, mods like keepers of the trove make getting chaos/regal recipes a joke while in maps.

While divination cards certainly were a neat concept, they completely and utterly destroyed the market for items in a variety of ways.

Divination cards are far easier to obtain than people realize, i farmed up 6 chains that bind in a few hours. That means i could get a ilvl 80 6L chest piece (potentially the best base as well) within a day of playing the game, craft it and have a chest piece worth multiple exalts.

Even legacy items are dropping in price because of the addition of Legacy items being available through divination cards.

Theres also the emperors luck card which is easily farmed, though its a gamble its actually not too uncommon to get the big hit currency rolls (divine orbs or exalted orbs).

GGG desperately needs to do something to slow down the fluctuation of items in standard right now because before too long nothing but mirrors with be worth anything and people will stop playing because trade will essentially be non-existent.

Actually this is an intended change, and a good one too. Its obvious that GGG is trying to make the game less reliant on the economy. The changes, including divination cards and increase in unique drop rates, are all intended to make it easier for people to make the builds without having to worry about accessing items at ridiculous prices.

Majority of people have zero problem in mirror worth rares being ultra expensive, a lot of people had problems (and rightly so) for build enabling uniques being really expensive.

The majority of players who play this game play standard league, trading is an integral part of the game. Youre basically saying that its a good idea to abandon a core concept in the game, one of the parts that makes the game fun, that they should abandon 70%+ of the player base.

Making gear too easy to get is not a good thing. The faster people are able to gear the less fun it is because theres no sense of progression, Path of Exile has hit that point.

Gearing has hyper accelerated since the release of 2.0, you can get to endgame within a few days and have GG gear in less than a month even as a casual player.

The faster you get gear, the faster that build becomes boring because theres no feel of progression. You dont gradually gear up anymore, you "instantly" gear up.

This effectively reduces the longevity of the game. Its comparable to buying a brand new $60 game, beating it in 4 hours. You think to yourself "Wow that was a nice story and all, but i didnt really get my moneys worth, i wish there was more to it..", and then you never touch it again.

Why do you think soo many people are quitting now ? This is one of the reasons.

exactly what i think, i hope GGG read this and will take actions in favour of path of exile longevity

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NeroNoah wrote:

Friendly reminder: the lack of item sinks always results in item saturation, that's the only reason most items are "worthless".

Also, Mirrors are a extremely slow time bomb; once all the T0 items are crafted or farmed, most items will be "worthless" because of inward price pressure (i.e. almost mirror worthy items are less valuable, so decent items by comparison become less valuable, and so for average and mediocre rares). Right now at least it's an objective to get T0 items, just not a deterministic one, so people will complain that they have to farm them in an old fashioned way, like in Diablo 2 (or that they have to rightfully use a ton of orbs, justified for the power and the BIS status, with no guarantees). If there are other methods to craft them I could be wrong, though.

you can craft 5T1 items less than mirror worth nowadays with help of master benches. I wont reveal how, of course, but trust me crafting is very easy now. however, 5t1 is in the bag but Last T1 is all about luck, in stnd you can buy some eternals and take care of it.

Reaching end game point is veeeery easy nowadays trust me

The only way the economy in standard can work is if items gets used up while being used!
Why is is a surprise that it doesn't work here?

Imagine these two scenarios:

1. A player find a Lightbane Raiment he doesn't need. He vendor it or it languish in his inventory until he quits (as nobody want to buy it).

2. A player find a Shavronne's Wrappings he doesn't need. He sell it or it languish in his inventory until he quits.


The Shav's will either languish in the new owners inventory, or get sold on!
In other words... They WILL accumulate in the game! ... and eventually their price will drop.

That is the same for ALL items. The good one will accumulate!
Inevitable, the economy in any game where items doesn't get used up while being used will go towards 0 for most items, and infinity for the very top ones.

The only way to fix it would be a 'durability' on all items, counting down while they're used, and once they reach 0 the item breaks and can't be used any more.

The economy in the challenge leagues works, because items are used up (they all disappear at the end).

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Cyzax wrote:

The only way the economy in standard can work is if items gets used up while being used!
Why is is a surprise that it doesn't work here?

Imagine these two scenarios:

1. A player find a Lightbane Raiment he doesn't need. He vendor it or it languish in his inventory until he quits (as nobody want to buy it).

2. A player find a Shavronne's Wrappings he doesn't need. He sell it or it languish in his inventory until he quits.

The Shav's will either languish in the new owners inventory, or get sold on!
In other words... They WILL accumulate in the game! ... and eventually their price will drop.

That is the same for ALL items. The good one will accumulate!
Inevitable, the economy in any game where items doesn't get used up while being used will go towards 0 for most items, and infinity for the very top ones.

The only way to fix it would be a 'durability' on all items, counting down while they're used, and once they reach 0 the item breaks and can't be used any more.

The economy in the challenge leagues works, because items are used up (they all disappear at the end).

Heres the problem, people play the new leagues because they want a fresh economy, yet whats the point ?

Those same people who say the economy is shit in permanent leagues sure do love to acquire lots of currency in new leagues, but guess what they always say ? "Oh no one gives a shit about perm leagues or their broken economies", soo why are you even playing the game then if the point of new leagues is to acquire more currency for your parent perm league ? There is none.

Are we at the point were temporary leagues need to go to void leagues ? Oh but then no one would play them because they wouldnt get anything out of it. See the problem ? Standard economy was doing just fine pre 2.0.

Item durability isnt going to solve the problem, GGG needs to address map mods, league mods, etc based around the population playing.

We already know GGG can and does do that, after all they even admitted that they "secretly" adjust currency drop rates based around the current economy of the game. They admitted it with chaos orbs, they explicitly did it with Vaal orbs.

We know GGG cares about the economy in the game, if they didnt they wouldnt have made such changes as stated.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Standard economy was doing just fine pre 2.0.

Actually it wasn't... It was showing exactly the same signs, lower-end items dropping in price, high-end items going up, and the dividing line between low- and high-end moving upwards.
The accumulation just hadn't had time to get to the current level...

yeah but the thing with standard is that 'worthless' items, if you can sell them you can sell them for a few chaos. When 2.0 dropped my lowest price in my shop was I think 3 chaos. An exalt in standard is about 20 regrets, 50 fusing, something like 45 chaos, the amount of lower currency needed for an ex is lower and people have more of it so you can charge 5 chaos for something you would struggle to get 3 for in a temp league because people dont care, theyve got 2 or 3 rows of chaos orbs, might even have 2 or 3 tabs of chaos orbs, 5 for an item is nothing to them, theyre happy they got something for basically nothing and didnt have to spend exalts. In the first few weeks of 2.0 I made 100s of exalts in standard just selling rares and the occasional unique for the most. Most of those being 3 chaos, 6 chaos, 10 chaos sales. I think people underestimate the potential to sell far from perfect rares there when its a busy time. I usually play temp leagues when its busy, even i was surprised at just how much stuff I could sell on standard when 2.0 first landed.


Standard still works when its a busy time for the game, and becomes dysfunctional just like temp leagues when its not busy. With a temp league you just say "well the league is dead, next league economy will be crazy again". With standard you dont have that clock reminding you that every mini expansion a shitload of people will come back and the economy will be fast paced again. It does leave standard in a bad way for periods between big updates like sotv, masters etc. Youve sort of got to stock up like a squirrel when times are good and then bunker down to mainly solo, playing from your stash and drops through the long winter. But standard is a long way from completely unworkable to the extent a lot of people presume it must be by now.

My problem with this economy in standard league right now is EXALTS. Nobody wants to trade items for anything else! It's not fair. I can barely afford the time to accumulate the currency to sell enough stuff for exalts. Yes chroms are probably the easiest to sell for exalts. But that takes so much time to round them up and finally have enough to sell. By then i get bored of doing Dried Lake alllll day and alll night on the weekends. I really want the Exalt drop rates to increase because it's unfair how much work and effort we have to put in to get the items we need for our builds. Atziri's Splendour for example, I finally was able to afford it, but guess what...it was 3 exalts. I couldn't afford a 20 exalt 6-link one. So i was stuck with a 1 socket one. So i had to use all my jewellers orbs to make it 6 socket. Then i have to wait for a very long time for fusings to pile up (1500) to be able to craft/link it 6-link. It's a very straneous and long played out concept. I just get so tired of this. And the currency rates only get worse and worse as the days go by.

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Cyzax wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Standard economy was doing just fine pre 2.0.

Actually it wasn't... It was showing exactly the same signs, lower-end items dropping in price, high-end items going up, and the dividing line between low- and high-end moving upwards.
The accumulation just hadn't had time to get to the current level...

Those are classic symptoms of gear inflation. The cause is items not being able to leave the economy, and the problem won't go away as long as items cannot. The solution is to introduce some kind of gear-based gear sink (such as an irreparable durability system) to eliminate gear from the economy.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Cyzax wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Standard economy was doing just fine pre 2.0.

Actually it wasn't... It was showing exactly the same signs, lower-end items dropping in price, high-end items going up, and the dividing line between low- and high-end moving upwards.
The accumulation just hadn't had time to get to the current level...

Those are classic symptoms of gear inflation. The cause is items not being able to leave the economy, and the problem won't go away as long as items cannot. The solution is to introduce some kind of gear-based gear sink (such as an irreparable durability system) to eliminate gear from the economy.

Vaal orbs were the gear sink, they decreased Vaal orbs dropping by a significant amount, then they boosted the amount of items dropping, this is why the economy there was relatively stable until 2.0. Vaal orbs gave the perm league economy the second wind it needed.