Standard's Economy right Now

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Derpey wrote:

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DoctaLinker wrote:

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zachatta wrote:

You are playing standard worrying about the economy........

Sorry, but so what? Am I supposed to play this game waiting all the time for temporary leagues? So am I supposed to quit it in the next month and wait for another (more-of-the-same) league?

..Yes? The game is made around challenge leagues, this is a fact that have been known since closed beta.
Why do you think HC is a ghost town? Nobody plays it, we just wait for new challenge leagues, new economy and whatnot.

Sadly this economy always ends up being controlled by the 1%, fortunate enough to find good stuff and control the market.

It was the same shit in Non-Ladder Diablo 2, but people didn't complain there, even though they also had Legacy shit (Siggard's Stealth and Ladder-Only Runewords).

But really, this is GGG's fault, they made the game like this.
Like, why would you EVER want to craft yourself when it's just a bloody gamble if you get something good?
Eternal Orb have been hated for ages, but it was our only proper way of crafting without wanting to commit suicide.

IMO, redo the entire crafting in the game, it just doesn't function, it instead makes people hoard up stock of worthless currencies that they trade with, instead of using.

This is a stupid opinion. Sorry, but this whole game is not catered around the one mode you like to play. Don't know how anyone can even convince themselves of that

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Its actually GGG's fault more than anything, theyve made alot of poor decisions regarding changes and additions in 2.0.

Gearing is hyper accelerated right now because of these changes, causing gear to cost less and orbs to be worth less.

The worst change made to the game was adding in divination cards, some of the other poor changes are the over saturation of unique mods, these are your inner treasure, singularity, etc. Theres also the problem of ghost busting which is absolutely broken still. Bloodline is also a big problem too, mods like keepers of the trove make getting chaos/regal recipes a joke while in maps.

While divination cards certainly were a neat concept, they completely and utterly destroyed the market for items in a variety of ways.

Divination cards are far easier to obtain than people realize, i farmed up 6 chains that bind in a few hours. That means i could get a ilvl 80 6L chest piece (potentially the best base as well) within a day of playing the game, craft it and have a chest piece worth multiple exalts.

Even legacy items are dropping in price because of the addition of Legacy items being available through divination cards.

Theres also the emperors luck card which is easily farmed, though its a gamble its actually not too uncommon to get the big hit currency rolls (divine orbs or exalted orbs).

GGG desperately needs to do something to slow down the fluctuation of items in standard right now because before too long nothing but mirrors with be worth anything and people will stop playing because trade will essentially be non-existent.

Actually this is an intended change, and a good one too. Its obvious that GGG is trying to make the game less reliant on the economy. The changes, including divination cards and increase in unique drop rates, are all intended to make it easier for people to make the builds without having to worry about accessing items at ridiculous prices.

Majority of people have zero problem in mirror worth rares being ultra expensive, a lot of people had problems (and rightly so) for build enabling uniques being really expensive.

Just started playing up standard lately on couple chars so this thread is fairly relevant to me.

What I find really curious is that some people seem to think that POE is a game about "playing the market". As in, the entire purpose an exile has is to sit in party/trade chat and spam random stuff. Which I gotta be honest...is the dumbest notion of what POE means, possible.

The game is about getting items and currency NOT just for the sake of getting them, but actually USING them. Wealth that doesn't have a purpose but to be accumulated is probably the most mindless and morally-bankrupting (yeah I just pulled the morality card in an arpg o.o) single pursuit one can have. Let's ignore that it happens all the time IRL, which is reality so leave that as it is. But this is a game, where not just do we collect items/currencies because its nice to get loot, but do so with a purpose: to create new builds, test out random ideas to see how well they work, and etc along those lines.

I have no personal desire to match the wealth of the richest people in POE. I couldn't care less, and my epeen is 0% dependent on what they do or how much they have. Granted this is probably unique to me, but the point is that the wealth of those people only affects another person if allowed to do so...it is an aspect of the mind, self-creating illusions and whatnot. What I do want for is for playing fields to be equal, ie knowledge being freely available to all and publicly disseminated (exactly what didn't happen with that whole 72 mirror/OMGWHATISTHISCRAFTING method/fiasco on reddit some time ago). If it's common knowledge, then let the chips fall where they may. If growing stacks and stacks of exalts gives some people their raison d'etre...then let them have it. Even if they don't know or can't know how empty it truly is, it is still their peace to make.

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deteego wrote:

Majority of people have zero problem in mirror worth rares being ultra expensive, a lot of people had problems (and rightly so) for build enabling uniques being really expensive.

Really then why on earth did we see tons of people complaining about both eternals and mirrors?

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goetzjam wrote:

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deteego wrote:

Majority of people have zero problem in mirror worth rares being ultra expensive, a lot of people had problems (and rightly so) for build enabling uniques being really expensive.

Really then why on earth did we see tons of people complaining about both eternals and mirrors?

because a more accurate assessment is people like to complain about change. they had a set system in place. accumulate eternals , accumulate exalts.

get the best item you could by manipulating the mod pools with meta mods and then try to make a profit off of mirror services.

This had a system. and it was put on its head,l or at-least given a finite expiration date as the reserves of eternals get spent away.

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goetzjam wrote:

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deteego wrote:

Majority of people have zero problem in mirror worth rares being ultra expensive, a lot of people had problems (and rightly so) for build enabling uniques being really expensive.

Really then why on earth did we see tons of people complaining about both eternals and mirrors?

Name a topic and you will ever find someone who is against it :>

I myself dislike mirrors... they kill my incentive to craft anything when there is already something better that I can buy "easily". And without eternals and with the existence of legacy mods I can never (again) craft anything comparable items to alreay existing mirror worthy stuff. So, I just gather currency to buy stuff later...

I liked eternals... they help you to craft an item, but they were that rare, that only the 1% could ever use them (effective). In my opinion the orb was just fine, the droprate was not...

Exalteds should be the rarest currency in game while mirrors are... nothing else than a myth. Eternals should drop twice as often as exalteds and probly we had much less problems... but... hey... just my 2 cents of QQ on the topic of stupid balancing :>

PS: You can always play any build with shitty rares, but you can't do most builds without build enabling items (and they tend to be unique) that's why I think deteego is right.

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deteego wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Its actually GGG's fault more than anything, theyve made alot of poor decisions regarding changes and additions in 2.0.

Gearing is hyper accelerated right now because of these changes, causing gear to cost less and orbs to be worth less.

The worst change made to the game was adding in divination cards, some of the other poor changes are the over saturation of unique mods, these are your inner treasure, singularity, etc. Theres also the problem of ghost busting which is absolutely broken still. Bloodline is also a big problem too, mods like keepers of the trove make getting chaos/regal recipes a joke while in maps.

While divination cards certainly were a neat concept, they completely and utterly destroyed the market for items in a variety of ways.

Divination cards are far easier to obtain than people realize, i farmed up 6 chains that bind in a few hours. That means i could get a ilvl 80 6L chest piece (potentially the best base as well) within a day of playing the game, craft it and have a chest piece worth multiple exalts.

Even legacy items are dropping in price because of the addition of Legacy items being available through divination cards.

Theres also the emperors luck card which is easily farmed, though its a gamble its actually not too uncommon to get the big hit currency rolls (divine orbs or exalted orbs).

GGG desperately needs to do something to slow down the fluctuation of items in standard right now because before too long nothing but mirrors with be worth anything and people will stop playing because trade will essentially be non-existent.

Actually this is an intended change, and a good one too. Its obvious that GGG is trying to make the game less reliant on the economy. The changes, including divination cards and increase in unique drop rates, are all intended to make it easier for people to make the builds without having to worry about accessing items at ridiculous prices.

Majority of people have zero problem in mirror worth rares being ultra expensive, a lot of people had problems (and rightly so) for build enabling uniques being really expensive.

The majority of players who play this game play standard league, trading is an integral part of the game. Youre basically saying that its a good idea to abandon a core concept in the game, one of the parts that makes the game fun, that they should abandon 70%+ of the player base.

Making gear too easy to get is not a good thing. The faster people are able to gear the less fun it is because theres no sense of progression, Path of Exile has hit that point.

Gearing has hyper accelerated since the release of 2.0, you can get to endgame within a few days and have GG gear in less than a month even as a casual player.

The faster you get gear, the faster that build becomes boring because theres no feel of progression. You dont gradually gear up anymore, you "instantly" gear up.

This effectively reduces the longevity of the game. Its comparable to buying a brand new $60 game, beating it in 4 hours. You think to yourself "Wow that was a nice story and all, but i didnt really get my moneys worth, i wish there was more to it..", and then you never touch it again.

Why do you think soo many people are quitting now ? This is one of the reasons.

@Tin_Foil_Hat

Again here just spurting stuff out as if it were fact.

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The majority of players who play this game play standard league

Do you have a source on this? Last I recall was over 2 years ago and even then the standard players were only around 50 something percent and that very well could be people deing from hardcore logging in and giving stuff away or people quickly testing something before doing it in a temp league.

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trading is an integral part of the game

It is, yet the focus GGG has had basically is to remove as much dependency as possible it seems recently. We didn't see trading updates as apparently that takes a lot of work, so for such a system to be so important to the game when it is completely dependent on 3rd party sites and apps surprise me.

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Youre basically saying that its a good idea to abandon a core concept in the game, one of the parts that makes the game fun, that they should abandon 70%+ of the player base.

Yeah there is no way in hell 70% of the players that play PoE, time played OR amount active is that high on standard, I'm sure the time played rating is much higher for temp league players then for standard league players, especially if you consider actual content vs just afk time, which I'm not sure GGG records. Please don't spread misinformation here as fact, if you do believe its fact provide your source as the claim you are making here is most definitely wrong.

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Making gear too easy to get is not a good thing. The faster people are able to gear the less fun it is because theres no sense of progression, Path of Exile has hit that point.

Poe is becoming a more casual game, it literally cannot help it. In order for GGG to attract more players they must homogenize themselves with the ideals that people enjoy from other games. I completely disagree with this notion and while I want GGG to succeed, the quality of the game is diminishing from the mentality to make the game more casual. Lets not be mistaken here though, gearing has been getting easier and easier all along, even the changes to T1 unqiues don't have much effect in standard, theres already tons of stuff there and more stuff then players that want it.

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Gearing has hyper accelerated since the release of 2.0, you can get to endgame within a few days and have GG gear in less than a month even as a casual player.

Source? From starting with nothing to GG gear in less then a month is no small feat, it requires quite a lot of dedication, especially if you want a 6 link and even further if you want a 6 link unqiue chest like lightning coil.

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The faster you get gear, the faster that build becomes boring because theres no feel of progression. You dont gradually gear up anymore, you "instantly" gear up.

That has been a problem ever since trading has become more mainstream, imagine if poe had an AH where you can literally buy your item without ever worrying about the player being online or available, yes people want this (i do not, i despise this idea) Casual players always want it easier. It isn't like they increased the chances for crafting stuff, (except the new master meta mods being cheaper) it just its easier now to sell then ever before, which means more are available.

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This effectively reduces the longevity of the game. Its comparable to buying a brand new $60 game, beating it in 4 hours. You think to yourself "Wow that was a nice story and all, but i didnt really get my moneys worth, i wish there was more to it..", and then you never touch it again.

Poe has lots of things you can do, reaching endgame technically takes longer then before, the ability to gear has been made easier with divination cards. I don't think its too easy.

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Why do you think soo many people are quitting now ? This is one of the reasons.

Because people are sick of map drops, sick of having to build overly defensive after the new changes, sick of not being able to play spell casters without some crappy defense and invest heavily in mana or do something "stupid" like EB\ZO or EB\GR, both of which completely are pointless, what is the point of changing a keystone that "requires" another keystone when the sacrifices are already so much. Paired with the leech changes, new map mods that were untested GGG has forced meta builds harder then ever before. Don't blame this on itemization in poe, blame this on terrible design being added into the game that forces boring meta builds like incinerate, cyclone, srs and PA. Because you have to do as stupid as maps as possible you need to have the ability to be tanky, do stupid mods and scale with investment. GGG has to revert some of these changes, I would recon on this overly defensive stuff, as well as fixing leech and revisiting these map mods before people would consider playing PoE longer then their first death or two.

Friendly reminder: the lack of item sinks always results in item saturation, that's the only reason most items are "worthless".

Also, Mirrors are a extremely slow time bomb; once all the T0 items are crafted or farmed, most items will be "worthless" because of inward price pressure (i.e. almost mirror worthy items are less valuable, so decent items by comparison become less valuable, and so for average and mediocre rares). Right now at least it's an objective to get T0 items, just not a deterministic one, so people will complain that they have to farm them in an old fashioned way, like in Diablo 2 (or that they have to rightfully use a ton of orbs, justified for the power and the BIS status, with no guarantees). If there are other methods to craft them I could be wrong, though.

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Derpey wrote:

Sadly this economy always ends up being controlled by the 1%, fortunate enough to find good stuff and control the market.

I know this isnt central to your point, so not disagreeing with the general direction of your post, but just this detail tho. Its not really 1% fortunate enough to find good stuff, the people who get rich do so by understanding how to get rich. Its got virtually nothing to do with luck, rng etc. Same people get rich every new league, there might be the odd guy who finds a mirror and gets a few 100ex out of it that one time. But the vast majority of people who have 1000, 2000, 5000+ exalts in gear and/or orbs have never found a mirror, its all down to being smart about every aspect of generating and expanding wealth.

I think its an important thing for people to understand and take on board, so often I see people say "Ill enver be rich" "Ill never find a t1 unqiue" etc. And yes, you may never find a t1 unique. Never getting rich? Well yes, that will also happen because you have decided you are not, but that is what its down to, the fact you are now not going to try and find out how to get rich and do what it takes, not because of the sort of rng that is responsible for you not finding stuff. Thats fine, it shouldnt be an automatic goal that everyone cares about to get rich, a lot of people dont care, I dont really care to get any richer than the level I currently maintain, but people need to be aware its a choice.






As far as the rest of this goes, theres 2 sides and I am on both of them, both have solid points. Gear progression can be too fast, that is a thing, but also self found/casual/non-mfing etc is really punishing. Orb drop rates are terrible, yes we find a lot of gear most of it is junk, there is a massive thing in this game too where people complain about being so reliant on trading vs playing. So theres 2 totally opposing forces both wanting to push the same mechanic in different directions.

I made a post a fair while ago now about evolving things like exiles, ghosts, ambush boxes etc through the life span of a league to bring in a slower gear progression in the first say 3 or 4 weeks than the rest of the league, just to ease that feeling of getting too complete in the first 2 or 3 weeks. The problem is that the first 3 weeks of a league more people are on hence more items dropping more trades being made, thats actually when gear progression is fastest.


I think the biggest factor though is experienced players + xyz, its not the div cards and the ghosts etc. Back is open beta people would lose their shit over gear they would just vendor now without even thinking twice. A lot of us know exactly what we want, exactly what is possible, probable, price ranges, trends, we have the whole thing down and as soon as we know our build we know the exact item rolls we are pitching for. Then we load up xyz and can search for them with exact stats, we can save searches, we now have 20 tabs we can devote to just our shop and upload them all to the forums with such ease using procure/acqui so we are listing everything remotely sellable. That is what has changed this game the most over time imo, trade tools being so powerful and easy to use + players knowing exactly what they want.

and of course look on the forums and everywhere the buzz right now is omg trade to hard ggg fix trade and make it easier. So once again its that thing of do they fix the game by making trade harder or fix it by making it easier? 2 entirely opposing forces weighing down. Who here wants to hear them nerf div card drops, nerf unique drops and further nerf rare drops with their crazy "oh u cna now roll +3 life" assaults on the mod pools etc in order to reduce the impact of all these trade changes people are calling for? Its easy to get pissed off at trade in that moment when you want it to be easier but its not so easy for that same person to be ok with balancing that choice by nerfing their drops, and if you dont balance it then you are further accelerating how fast we gear up etc which is contributing to shorter interest span.

We bash GGG a lot for not implementing/fixing certain things quickly enough, omg chris y no trade changes yet unacceptable etc. But when you really look at trade and the larger item situation in the game right now its not an easy thing to do at all, to be sure youre doing the right thing. Theres a strong case for going in 2 complete opposite directions with trade, and when you give people too much its hard to take it back again. Example reductions in xp from the new 82 maps, that so needed to happen, it was excessive xp, but it was given. Then when they took it away just a little people cried nerf and tantrums were had even though at that point there were now maps in the game with literally 3 or 4x the amount of xp on offer for a mid 90s character than there was a month before in 1.3. People didnt even care to understand maps on a level where they could see that, felt like they were just happy enough to have something to complain about sadly.