GGG Logic

In this thread we'll post some fine examples of GGG logic :)

Problem: Energy from Within does not work with CI.
Energy From Within Description: Increases and Reductions to Life in Radius are Transformed to apply to Energy Shield


GGG Logic: "Your life becomes 1 is not a reduction to your max, even though is always less than what you had previously"

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Problem: Reckoning cannot apply Fortify, but can apply Curse on Hit.
Fortify description: Grants Fortify on Melee hit
Reckoning Keywords Trigger, Attack, AoE, Melee

GGG Logic: "Although Reckoning meets the critera as a melee hit, fortify only works on active skills even though this effect is not listed."

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Problem: Totems cannot apply curse on hit, but are affected by LMP, added damage and on hit supports such as blind.

GGG Logic: "The spell you are casting simply summons a totem, the support gem does not affect the totem itself"
If the gems are all linked to the summoning and not the skill used by the totem, why do added effects and on hit work? And why are spell totems affected by my spell damage?

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Problem: You can not buff the reflect damage of items including bramblejack and shields, or degen effects such as Death's Oath Aura.

GGG Logic: "The item is doing the damage, you are not"
How is it then that I am able to buff the damage from my sword?

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B R A V O
R
A
V
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:^)

Problem: cat is hungry

GGG logic: the cat should be fed


amidoinitrite

and the list can go on and on...

one other thing worth mentioning is that the descriptions are becoming more and more vague... and the list of execeptions to how these rules work is becoming larger and larger..

logic is one thing but consistency of the terminology is getting downhill and that is a major problem which confuses new players and annoys long players

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

But that last one is the most forced. It should be fairly obvious by now that weapon damage is considered 'your damage' given pretty much every weapon node in the Skilldrasil directly affects you.

Why wouldn't "x% increased damage" also increase damage dealt by a shield? It's damage, and I'm the one dealing it in the same way as I am dealing damage with a thrusting sword. The difference being they're spikes on a shield and I only do it when I block...

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azamantes wrote:

logic is one thing but consistency of the terminology is getting downhill and that is a major problem which confuses new players and annoys long players

I agree that the terminology is getting more vague and it is annoying. I can completely appreciate why Energy From Within doesn't work with chaos innoculation: it would, for example permit Righteous Fire to be run for free in combination with The Consuming Dark and Infernal Mantle (as it would be dealing 100% chaos damage).

It's a problem when there is something that ought to work given what other things work (eg curse on hit totems) or the text makes it seem like it should work (for example, Energised Armor and Acrobatics to take no ES loss). For the latter - I haven't bothered to test it, and it could very well end up not working just like Energy From Within didn't.

I didn't personally spend much time into planning a character to use it - but it would be a great shame if I did, when realistically it's the game's lack of clarity.

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ihasmario wrote:

In this thread we'll post some fine examples of GGG logic :)

Problem: Energy from Within does not work with CI.
Energy From Within Description: Increases and Reductions to Life in Radius are Transformed to apply to Energy Shield


GGG Logic: "Your life becomes 1 is not a reduction to your max, even though is always less than what you had previously"

It would be the coding, not the logic that determines what affects what. Whether Energy from Within should affect CI, would be a balance decision I would think. Considering how much ES was nerfed on equipment long ago, I doubt GGG would want to force even more balancing due to interactions with the jewel.

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ihasmario wrote:

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Problem: Reckoning cannot apply Fortify, but can apply Curse on Hit.
Fortify description: Grants Fortify on Melee hit
Reckoning Keywords Trigger, Attack, AoE, Melee

GGG Logic: "Although Reckoning meets the critera as a melee hit, fortify only works on active skills even though this effect is not listed."

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The purpose of Fortify was to give Melee characters more survivability in a way that non-melee characters couldn't take advantage of without getting into melee range. Allowing Fortify to be defensively triggered would wreck that function.

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Do you mean, you can get a 0 self-damage Righteous Fire, as long as you're willing to play with CI (1 hp) and two uniques?
You are hinting to a very interesting build concept here.

It doesn't work because Energy Within does not work with CI, but just by reading the jewels, the keystone and the uniques this is what I expected ought to happen.

I'm glad it doesn't, but I don't think the description as to why is in any way adequate in game.

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DalaiLama wrote:

It would be the coding, not the logic that determines what affects what. Whether Energy from Within should affect CI, would be a balance decision I would think. Considering how much ES was nerfed on equipment long ago, I doubt GGG would want to force even more balancing due to interactions with the jewel.

I would have liked the effect to work before The Consuming Dark was released. I now think it would be a terrible thing to work as there would be no risk to running it, with the exception of those uniques. Attempting to run it with just an Infernal Mantle, though I think would have been fine.

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ihasmario wrote:

The purpose of Fortify was to give Melee characters more survivability in a way that non-melee characters couldn't take advantage of without getting into melee range. Allowing Fortify to be defensively triggered would wreck that function.

Again I totally agree, but the functions in game suggest otherwise.

I don't think that I or any intelligent individual should need to test or search if something works as the description says it should before I invest time. That makes the game more confusing for new players, and also wastes time for the more experienced who may spend some time crafting a build on something that doesn't work like it sounds it will.

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ihasmario wrote:

Problem: Reckoning cannot apply Fortify, but can apply Curse on Hit.
Fortify description: Grants Fortify on Melee hit
Reckoning Keywords Trigger, Attack, AoE, Melee

GGG Logic: "Although Reckoning meets the critera as a melee hit, fortify only works on active skills even though this effect is not listed."

The purpose of Fortify was to give Melee characters more survivability in a way that non-melee characters couldn't take advantage of without getting into melee range. Allowing Fortify to be defensively triggered would wreck that function.

Hmm, why? You can apply Fortify through Reckoning at melee range only, so non-melee chars wouldn't get any bonuses from one working with another anyway.

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ihasmario wrote:

It doesn't work because Energy Within does not work with CI, but just by reading the jewels, the keystone and the uniques this is what I expected ought to happen.

I mean, without using the jewel :
100% fire to chaos + RF + CI => 0 self-damage?

RF turns off when you reach 1 HP, so you can't use it with CI at all without the jewel - which doesn't work anyway :)

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silumit wrote:

]Hmm, why? You can apply Fortify through Reckoning at melee range only, so non-melee chars wouldn't get any bonuses from one working with another anyway.

I presume you'd be able to get fortify on a caster in melee range while you block. I don't think this is necessarily an issue after GGG fixes the clear speed problem they've been having with melee (which they've kind of done).

Any trigger gem that can be used with rearguard (particularly if you take the staff block nodes over the right hand side of the tree) would mean that a pointblanker could get the buff which isn't too hard since you can get 42% block with a bow if you follow the parentheses and 48% with end charges if you use BoR for some reason...

Which I think wouldn't be a good thing.

Ultimately they're still battling with the ranged being better than melee thing which happens to basically every hardcore ARPG, which is why we're seeing more big AOE skills for melee chars.