Legacy Items - my 3 salty cents

"

maxor wrote:

"

FNX_Heroes wrote:

I think owning (or not) legacy items has nothing to do with competing with older players.
Just play the game for yourself and enjoy it.

Btw, if you really want legacy items, just TRADE them. Same for mirrored items. It's just a matter of price.

And saying "it's too expansive, so it's unfair" is not relevant either.
See that Ferrari in the street ? I can't buy it, it's unfair ! Remove it from the market ! :)

Reminds me of an ooooold debate : High Runes in Diablo2... History repeats iteself.

What if those "ferrari,s" cant be made any-more and when they were made it was using a "secret manufacturing technique" that was known only to a select few? Then what?

Make it yourself.

If you think you can really do better, if you have the passion to go that far, might as well make your own game.

Then get flamed and critised for doing it 'wrong' or different. Yeah, life sucks. Put in effort and people are like "Lol never thought this through company of idiots".

OP has the right motives but the wrong solution. The answer is not to take away things from the old players, but to simply allow new players to drop the same items that old players already have. Legacy shouldn't be a concept which applies to Standard at all; the "fixed" uniques should only be relevant from a temporary league perspective.

(And when temp leagues merge with Standard, one Divine Orb should transform your item into the "legacy" version.)

as the proud owner of more than a handful of "legacy" items - simply because I was here before they got... *cough*... "updated" - I actually agree with OP.
not in the general sense of advantage, but rather in how much advantage.

there was a post here in the Forum some time ago, in how other popular ARPGs handled itemization. Titan Quest as an example. different context (Mirror Gear), but relevant here too.
well the difference was often not that great to be honest. sure you could use that extra 50ish DPS if you were min-maxing and playing on the highest level... but there were no cases I remember, where the difference was almost double in overall effectiveness.

in Path Of Exile, that actually happens a lot.
take Facebreaker for example:

the "legacy" version I own
has 953% unarmed damage, and that's not even the highest roll. a perfect roll was a solid 1000%.
GGG's idea of balance being the "butcher-nerf to the ground" it often is, brought it down to what, 800% for a perfect roll? look at this:
and it's not even the worst example, but it is very bad because these gloves are a build-enabler, and well my build has absurdly more damage only because of "legacy".

I think "legacy" should have more damage, more efficiency, more life/ES whatnot - but when it has so much more, it just screams poor balance.
maybe it's time to finally stop "butcher-nerfing", and start balancing?

Hi



I would prefer that GGG encourage a flurry of trading of a unique soon to be legacy by announcing a date that the change to that unique would take place. Then once the date is past and the unique becomes legacy, it becomes account bound and can never be traded.

Otherwise OP needs to learn acceptance. I been playing since ORIGINAL CB, thats years of accumulating cool uniques that have been subsequently changed (sometimes for the better), I treat my legacy items like a museum/shrine, other people trade them for exorbitant prices, who bloody cares?! Don't hate the game hate the playa that probably didn't trade you that uber legacy item you wanted. Just play the game and gather uniques you never know when the next one will become legacy and you too can share in the enjoyable feeling of having a perfect LEGACY ITEM DROP,(NOT TRADED) DROPPED...

BUT to attempt and suggest this silly notion of eliminating everyone's legacies is asinine, account bounding is the easiest solution and it also encourages players to trade more AND stops RMT sales of legacies BUT last time I suggested this to Chris and GGG support I was informed that Account bounding is not agreeable, that they don't like it; its not about likes at this point as much as its about time to understand that the trading economy would be a far easier place to trade when the overly inflated legacy items are account bound.

Also 1+ to Johnkeys, less butcher more nurturing balancing would be awesome, I mean seriously I been chastising the balance team for ages and they still haven't learned?!?!?! It just seems like the balancing team makes MOAR work for themselves.

cheers

"

panmisiek123 wrote:

Well well well.


I think Legacy items should be either deleted or transformed into most recent versions OR at least put some sort weapon experience for example 100 billion exp that will turn the weapon to legacy version.

And the REASON is very simple. Just because those people been first to play PoE does it mean they should have now advantage over new players?


I think that is putting people to stop playing this game at all knowing that they never going to be as powerful as they most "advanced" colleagues.




Perhaps I am wrong with my statement, but if I am, can someone be so kind and explain to me why it is good the way it is now.

it is posts like this , i believe, are the reason why nearly none of the last 30 unique items were useful or interesting

"

BUT to attempt and suggest this silly notion of eliminating everyone's legacies is asinine

I agree its almost on the same level of "stupid" as your following suggestion:

"

account bounding is the easiest solution and it also encourages players to trade more AND stops RMT sales of legacies BUT last time I suggested this to Chris and GGG support I was informed that Account bounding is not agreeable, that they don't like it; its not about likes at this point as much as its about time to understand that the trading economy would be a far easier place to trade when the overly inflated legacy items are account bound.

No way should they ever add account bound items to PoE, its a stupid, lazy design that developers use to "fix" problems they think exsists. Making items account bound is the equivalent of saying now instead of you will "never" get these items, when in all actuality you can if you just farm up and save, like legacy facebreakers, lightning coil, ect you then make it IMPOSSIBLE for others to get those items.

PoE is based around an economy, one that in standard and regular HC has legacy items, there is "no solution" to the problem, simply because the problem doesn't really exsists in the first place. The same argument is made every single one of these threads, don't like legacy items, don't play in perm leagues.



Stop trying to re-invent the wheel for these "problems" its not going to ever be fixed.

"

panmisiek123 wrote:

<envy post>

Why does it bother you so much what other people do? It doesn't affect you in any way!

"

Cyzax wrote:

"

panmisiek123 wrote:

<envy post>

Why does it bother you so much what other people do? It doesn't affect you in any way!

Open a "guide".
Stats look good. Want to try this build.
Oh wait. Legacy items all over the place.

It's just a neverending pain with some items. Could have +1000 hp on my chest, but wasn't around soon enough, so i only get half, etc.

I'm not really complaining, I don't even play Standard, but it's a weird design idea when broken items get fixed, but remain in the game for some players.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

"

Cyzax wrote:

"

panmisiek123 wrote:

<envy post>

Why does it bother you so much what other people do? It doesn't affect you in any way!

Open a "guide".
Stats look good. Want to try this build.
Oh wait. Legacy items all over the place.

It's just a neverending pain with some items. Could have +1000 hp on my chest, but wasn't around soon enough, so i only get half, etc.

I'm not really complaining, I don't even play Standard, but it's a weird design idea when broken items get fixed, but remain in the game for some players.

"broken" item get fixed for temp leagues, which is where the game is balanced for, GGG decided long ago that changing the value of peoples items isn't something they were going to do. This was around the same time the D3 community backlashed against blizzard for reducing attack speed globally.

Open all the guides you want, good ones will provide a leveling guide, budget friendly guide and then the "ultimate endgame" guide. Very few cases legacy items are actually "needed" to make the build work properly, having the non legacy version of the item will usually suffice, not to mention in your example you use the worst extreme legacy item, which doesn't actually help your point.


"never ending pain" care to go into more detail of why you think its painful to think outside the box to make up for whatever that build is losing by not having the legacy item, I think the important distinction here between good players and people that just play the game is the ability to adapt your build, tree, ect based on what you are able to get.


As for the design idea, its not weird, you simply never want to take away a players "work\effort" in order to adjust the game. GGG has many venues they can use to balance builds, legacy items were SUPPOSE to be rare and few and far between, we've seen how well that has turn out though.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"never ending pain" care to go into more detail of why you think its painful to think outside the box to make up for whatever that build is losing by not having the legacy item, I think the important distinction here between good players and people that just play the game is the ability to adapt your build, tree, ect based on what you are able to get.

I don't know how or why you connect this with "the ability to adapt/think outside the box".

Whenever I use Facebreaker/Kaom's heart/whatever, I know that there is a better version of this item around, one I will not get to use. Because it doesn't exist anymore.

I don't have to "adapt my build" here, I just deal 20% less damage because my fb has 20% less damage.
I can totally deal with it, but knowing about these items' existance is not something that makes the game better for me. It annoys me. Not too much, but it's annoying. And many others, that's why threads like this one keep popping up.

"

As for the design idea, its not weird, you simply never want to take away a players "work\effort" in order to adjust the game. GGG has many venues they can use to balance builds, legacy items were SUPPOSE to be rare and few and far between, we've seen how well that has turn out though.

Games get balanced all day, and usually balance changes apply to everyone and everything.
I haven't seen "legacy" in any other game before.

Btw, as already mentioned. I'm not really complaining, I also have some legacy items, I don't care about standard league. I just understand why people don't like the whole "legacy" thing. You seem to fail to comprehend it.