CoC + 'Hits cant be evaded'

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keeper190786 wrote:

But still, should a greater base crit chance clearly outweigh the evading thing...

The value of vagan's weapons is you can have both, and with virtually no investment except the weapon itself.

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raics wrote:

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keeper190786 wrote:

But still, should a greater base crit chance clearly outweigh the evading thing...

The value of vagan's weapons is you can have both, and with virtually no investment except the weapon itself.

Thats not true at all... U cant get T1 crit

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keeper190786 wrote:

Thats not true at all... U cant get T1 crit

Ah, you meant that.

It's easy to calculate, assuming 90% chance to hit:

Normal weapon
38% more crits from local mod
19% crit loss on accuracy/crit confirmation
-> 11% more crits over non-crafted vagan dagger

Vagan dagger
27% more crits from crafted local mod

So that's 14% more crits for a crafted Vagan dagger, even with max T1 roll on your regular dagger and high chance to ohit.

If you have lower chance to hit Vagan weapons are even better, for 85% it will give you 28% more crits over a regular weapon, that's almost a third more, and with zero investment in accuracy. Investment you can use to get even more dps, survivability, free up mod slots on jewelry, helm and gloves to get more survivability, a bit of rarity...

i missed the square in my initial plot. But easy to correct, cause it meant my plot is for 95% hit chance. if u look at the chart u need like 5% points overall crit chance more to compensate the evaded thing.

So. imaging u wanna cap ur crit (nearly) then u need an increased crit chance of about 900%... so the difference in the base crit chance is multiplied nine times. So after all u can compensate that evaded thing with roughly 0.5% base crit more...

Pls dont understand me wrong. IT IS a nice thing. And it worth a bit. I guess i could save 4-5 points with a vagan dagger, which is pretty nice (i have only accu on 1 ring and it isnt that stat why i wear the ring)

So i made a new chart for a hit chance of 0.91
http://postimg.org/image/46tnh0p25/


But a vagan dagger has mostly crafted mods on it + it misses 1 mod for the vagan mod. I wouldnt pay 40ex+ just for that mod, if i loose like 30% spell dmg, spell crit and so on...


But to make my point: I had an argument with a guy who demanded 45 ex for a vagan dagger (bas crit around 8.5) with only crafted mods and i told him, that the dagger isnt worth that much. And because i didnt understand why it _could_ be so expensive i analysed it a bit.

Higher Crit Chance means Higher Clearing Speed.

More crits is more consistency. Consistency means less time spent whacking a mob till its dead. (It's also less time enduring a beating until its dead).

This would not be true if discharge and some spells did not have very high damage, but when they do, the only thing that matters is when the hit goes off, not the damage. And a minor loss of damage mods isn't that important when it comes to vastly improved consistency.

Others have also said Accuracy is very important. Have you ever played with 85% Accuracy as a Melee? You're gonna feel the pain when you miss. You do not want to be missing too much as a melee, that means more time for mobs to kill you. And they will kill you. When the Accuracy drops even further it's going to be worse and worse.

Of course if you can make up for these short-comings the dagger isn't worth as much to you as others, but then you realise it's like how a Bino's isn't worth that much to a Righteous Fire build, or a Kaom's Heart isn't worth that much to a low-life build. Or how Voltaxxic Rift is not worth much to non-lightning archers.

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keeper190786 wrote:

I wouldnt pay 40ex+ just for that mod

Sure, I wouldn't give 40ex for it either.

The discussion needs a bit clarification...

I play CoC with ST and only as secondary skill cyclone. I guess the hit thing is a bit less important to ST than cyclone...

With a dagger power charges and gear u can hit the crit cap easy and hit hap is also 95%. So capped on both u will have 81% crit chance, while with vagan dagger all 95%.

And it is not only few nodes saving, which is already huge. But also a saving of a suffix on gear, %accuracy means nothing, if there is no flat amount to increase. Meaning, u can get better gear for less. Saving many exalts here, making vagan dagger a good investment.

Wasnt there a change in critical strike versus bosses and rares?

i mean that they receive less critical strikes than normal mobs? must be a change around the first release, i remember... i played a self-cast discharger then and it affected me badly.

but perhaps i persuade myself of it :D anyone who could confirm this or is able to effectively search the patch notes for it?