Sustaining 75/76/77 Maps /w Blue Rolls

@Snorkle_uk: You, sir, are my new hero! :)

I hope Chris or somebody else from GGG who can change things reads it.

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Dr1MaR wrote:

looool. the map drops are garbage, that s NOT ok to farm 76-77 maps on lvl 96. on lvl 96 you supposed to be farmin 79-82! Yes, map drops are garbage, I am currently lvl 96 and I get .5% exp from a 76 lvl map. I chiseled, chaos, Vaal fragments every 79+ map and I am still back to 76-77's. I almost never get map returns and I invest eeeverything in my maps including zana mods. So, you just have no idea what you talking about. Good luck farming your 76's

Ambush your 79+ and roll magic pack on each box. Make sure each map has multiple pack size rolls. Quant means jack shit.

Ambushing makes sustaining a joke.

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Char1983 wrote:

Either this statement is wrong, or the TO is lying, or the TO is just incredibly lucky, or there are other factors that make the TO sustain while I cannot.

EDIT: @TO, if you have a large excess of 75s on standard, do you mind selling them in bulk?

I don't know if the OP is lying or not, I personally call bullshit on sustaining 75s with transmutes, but frankly it doesn't matter.

Whether or not you can sustain 75s ultimately has no bearing on endgame mapping.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

...Only way to reliably invest in maps is to buy maps, only way to reliably build your own map pool is by beating rng down with a stick of playing this game more hours than the average person works week in week out. ...You are completely at the mercy of rng, you might get lucky, you might not, but ultimately you have no meaningful control over your endgame access so spend an amount that is insignificant to you on maps otherwise youll be even more pissed off than the average angry mapper.

...

Its the same with the whole t1/rare unique thing...8k hours grinding endgame efficiently with efficient builds, stuff happens, the extreme rng of this game evens out. Thats what it comes down to basically with a lot of things in this game.

Some snippets from Snorkle's post, which sums up my view on PoE and I strongly agree with. Unfortunately, these things are not fun. If a game can be fun only at 1000s of hours investment, there is a problem for all involved. PoE suffers from weird schizophrenia where it wants to attract new players and become more accessible but on the other hand it uses heavy RNG-based system that can be overcome only by throwing your life at it.

Yes, you can get lucky and win but that luck could have been better used to win RL lottery than an item in PoE. However, most likely you wont be one of those lucky winner, if you are not lucky winner you are poor loser. You will not find Exalted orbs or items worth them, you wont find maps to play high level content, you wont enjoy the game in a long run.

He took me ages to get some 77-78 before 2.0 after that it just getting low and low. i alc every maps also chaos, vaal etc.. etc.. i spend tons of currency and i'm gonna be done to 74 very soon.

Getting half a tab of 78,79,80 with blue maps. Are you kidding ?

my question is: Are we playing the same game ?????????????????

Seriously, you spend no currency, do stupid easy maps and you get tons of high lvl ones. In the other side. you burned all your good currency, take the risk to do hard maps (i'm talking about HC) and you get NOTHING. It's just me or there is something wrong there ?

An here I am in temp. leagues, throwing alchemy, chisel, vaal, sac.frag on maps for 150hrs, before I've seen my first 78. Instead I should have taken my huge pool of leftover 78s and run them blue! Oh, wait...

btw, if OP is even 50% right, then mapping is even more fucked up than in 1.3

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Akiner wrote:

He took me ages to get some 77-78 before 2.0 after that it just getting low and low. i alc every maps also chaos, vaal etc.. etc.. i spend tons of currency and i'm gonna be done to 74 very soon.

Getting half a tab of 78,79,80 with blue maps. Are you kidding ?

my question is: Are we playing the same game ?????????????????

Seriously, you spend no currency, do stupid easy maps and you get tons of high lvl ones. In the other side. you burned all your good currency, take the risk to do hard maps (i'm talking about HC) and you get NOTHING. It's just me or there is something wrong there ?

He is probably doing shit load of 75ish maps with high clear speed (also maps are blue - this helps to do them fast). Guess you can sustain them as blue. From shit load of 75ish you get some 76ish, then 76->77 etc. I am sound like a caption obvious, but what I am trying to say, while he have "half a tab of 78,79,80" how much of 78-80 maps he plays per day? Probably a few, and rest just hoarding in his stash :) So yeah, playing 75ish, less 76ish and a few 77ish and then show casing tab with 78+ maps and claim map drops OK.

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Akiner wrote:

He took me ages to get some 77-78 before 2.0 after that it just getting low and low. i alc every maps also chaos, vaal etc.. etc.. i spend tons of currency and i'm gonna be done to 74 very soon.

Getting half a tab of 78,79,80 with blue maps. Are you kidding ?

my question is: Are we playing the same game ?????????????????

Seriously, you spend no currency, do stupid easy maps and you get tons of high lvl ones. In the other side. you burned all your good currency, take the risk to do hard maps (i'm talking about HC) and you get NOTHING. It's just me or there is something wrong there ?

Assuming he and you are both telling the absolute truth and not mixing up reality with feelings:
You're not doing it wrong, he's just more lucky than you are.

He is playing roulette with only one chip, you are playing with 3 or 4. Your chances to win are 3-4 times as high, but there's still a bunch of possible outcomes with him winning and you losing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_theory

Your maps have a higher chance for map return. A higher expected value in sum(maplevel)/maps.
But that cannot protect you.

If you roll better maps than him, but still get lower map returns, this means:
Your (higer) expected value minus your variance is lower than his expected value plus his variance.


Given a high enough samplesize, your maps are more likely to sustain than his.
He will run dry, you will not. But your samplesize is not high enough to defeat variance, even if you play hundreds of maps.

People often expect the "law of large numbers" (average converges to expectation) to set in quite quickly, but that's not very likely (Throwing a coin a 1000 times, you'll probably not get too close to 0.5 for head/number).

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Akiner wrote:

He took me ages to get some 77-78 before 2.0 after that it just getting low and low. i alc every maps also chaos, vaal etc.. etc.. i spend tons of currency and i'm gonna be done to 74 very soon.

Getting half a tab of 78,79,80 with blue maps. Are you kidding ?

my question is: Are we playing the same game ?????????????????

Seriously, you spend no currency, do stupid easy maps and you get tons of high lvl ones. In the other side. you burned all your good currency, take the risk to do hard maps (i'm talking about HC) and you get NOTHING. It's just me or there is something wrong there ?

ya the investment just doesnt work for the most, weve been telling them that for literally years, and its essentially the same system it always was. They removed maze mod, changed how pack size is rolled but it hasnt actually changed the underlying problem with a system consumed by rng.


Ive likened it to linking chest armours before. Last time I 6 linked an armour I used 20 scraps to 20%q it, used a fusing, brick. Used another 20 scraps, 20%q, brick... I used 2 whole rows of armour scraps before I decided ok, f this, were not gonna waste any more scraps I havent even hit a 5 link. 3 fusing later it 6 linked from 0% quality... rng.

Armour scraps, supposedly, double your chance of 6 linking. But if you sit down with 20 fusing and a 6 socket chest, do you believe armour scrapping it is going to make a real difference? You have 20 fusing and you are going from 1 in 1000 odds to 1 in 500 odds (so they say)... vs 20 fusing... Basically it wont happen. Doesnt matter if u quality the piece or not, you will fail regardless of investing the scraps, thats almost certain. You might hit it with the first fuse, that might happen regardless of the quality, its rng, but real talk you are going to fail either way and you have to know that from the moment you decide to try it or you are going to go insane.

When you sit down with 20 maps you are in the same situation, rng might favor you, it might not. Rolling those maps super hard may theoretically give you an edge but the reality is that either you get lucky or you dont. You cant influence the odds enough that you can make a consistent, observable difference on your 20 attempts, or 40 attempts, or 100 attempts, you cant afford to invest enough for long enough in every single attempt to actual observe the worth of your investment. Its unlikely your investment will ever be worth it when you consider how many maps you could have bought with those chaos on xyz even if they did pay off. You gonna go the long haul and invest in 1000 maps to even that rng? How much will that cost you? 25,000 chaos? How many maps can you buy with 25,000 chaos on xyz? Because thats a sure thing, you have 25k chaos orbs and you buy maps, you get your maps, thats not throwing money down on a horse thats buying off a shelf at a fixed price. You gonna spend £1,000,000 on a lottery ticket where you might win £1,000,000? Or you gonna just take the money out of the bank and have it in your hand?



you might think the op is insane but I can run a bunch of white maps and get lots of +1 maps then run a bunch of 100% quant + pack size maps and get nothing better than a -3, should I put that down to rng but when the reverse happens, suddenly I put it down to my wise investment? If they came out tomorrow and said 'ok, confession time, quant on maps has never effected map drops we were just trolling' there would be nothing in my experience that info would contradict, if anything it would just feel like ok, that explains my experience of 2.5 years mapping virtually every day perfectly. Honestly 2.5 years, +8k hours I cant say Ive really seen any correlation between rolling maps and map returns, map drops or the lack there of have never exceeded the expected background white noise of rng.

+1.

I only roll harder maps for more loot, not map returns.

This is absolutely noticeable, I have to use a lot more portals to carry out my rare drops.
(1-2 -> 4-5). I also get a ton more currency this way.

But map drops... It doesn't seem to matter how hard you roll a map.
Same as it doesn't seem to matter if you just "yolo through map tiers" or "carefully build up a map pool and progress slowly". One is less threatened by bad RNG, but "less threatened" doesn't mean guaranteed success.

If everyone would read (and understand!) what Snorkle_uk said in this thread, that could end 99% of the map discussions on these forums.