Worth running 76+ maps as high level?

I'm 93.

My XP penalties:
lvl74 map: 91%
lvl75 map: 88%
lvl76 map: 85%
lvl77 map: 79%
lvl78 map: 72%

The difference between a sustainable map that only costs 1 alc to run compared to a lvl 78 map that costs 4 chisel, an alc and a vaal orb (cheapest scenario) only gives 19% less xp reduction. On lvl 94 this is only 14% difference (which is almost nothing).

So basically I can just as well run lvl 74-75 maps forever and sell my 76+ maps for lots of currency.

However, what is the base xp difference between the maps? Is there a list or calculator somewhere? I gotta know what the total effective difference between the maps is. Like if a lvl 75 skeleton has 2000 base xp and a lvl 78 has 4000 base xp, then it would still be worth to run the 78 maps. But if not, I might as well soon start running 73-75 maps w/o mods.

Just a little thing, it's 14% difference in penalty, but actually you are ( assuming same base exp numbers, because i also don;t know if they are the same) getting over 3 times more xp on 78lvl map compared to 74lvl ( 9% xp vs 28%xp).

"

silverdash wrote:

I'm 93.

My XP penalties:
lvl74 map: 91%
lvl75 map: 88%
lvl76 map: 85%
lvl77 map: 79%
lvl78 map: 72%

The difference between a sustainable map that only costs 1 alc to run compared to a lvl 78 map that costs 4 chisel, an alc and a vaal orb (cheapest scenario) only gives 19% less xp reduction. On lvl 94 this is only 14% difference (which is almost nothing).

So basically I can just as well run lvl 74-75 maps forever and sell my 76+ maps for lots of currency.

However, what is the base xp difference between the maps? Is there a list or calculator somewhere? I gotta know what the total effective difference between the maps is. Like if a lvl 75 skeleton has 2000 base xp and a lvl 78 has 4000 base xp, then it would still be worth to run the 78 maps. But if not, I might as well soon start running 73-75 maps w/o mods.

}}

Gems get exactly 10% of your exp without penalties, so if you want to compare for instance a 76 to a 78 map, just do the 2 maps and compare the exp a gem gained in both scenarios.

"

i also don;t know if they are the same)

They are not the same for sure. But the wiki does not include map levels for monster xp, only the regular acts. I know higher level maps give more base xp, I just need to know how much to calculate if running higher maps with a massive penalty is still worth it.


@Jazzday2
Wow over 3x for only 4 levels difference? So maps scale in xp WAY harder than the monster-levels in regular acts. This would mean that even with a theoretical 99% xp penalty, higher level maps are still worth it.
Also that gem-tip is a good one. I should test it using that.

"

silverdash wrote:

Wow over 3x for only 4 levels difference? So maps scale in xp WAY harder than the monster-levels in regular acts. This would mean that even with a theoretical 99% xp penalty, higher level maps are still worth it.
Also that gem-tip is a good one. I should test it using that.

its just the way youre viewing the xp penalty I think. I dont think hes saying they scale in xp more, hes saying you get 3x as much xp according to the penalty figures you just posted.

In a lvl 74 map you are getting 9% of the xp, with the level 78 map you are getting 28% of the xp, so thats 3 times more of the xp on offer. That doesnt account for the fact you get more base xp from the 78, even if each mob gave the same base xp in both maps the 78 is 3 times more. Say both maps gave you 1000 base xp before penalties, in the 74 you get 90xp, because that is 9% of 1000. In the 78 you get 280xp, because that is 28% of 1000. 90xp vs 280xp, its 200% more xp rather than 19% more.

you have to look at the amount of xp left over after the penalty, view that as 100% of the xp you actually get, then look at the xp left over after the penalty in the higher maps. Its the same way you look at resists, If you are at 98% lightning resist you take 2 damage from a 100 lightning damage hit right? Because 98 of the 100 is resisted. Raise it to 99% you take 1 damage, thats a 50% damage reduction from 1% extra resist.

If you have 0% resist, and you then get 1% resist, that is a 1% damage reduction, youve gone from taking 100 damage from every 100 dealt to taking 99 damage from every 100 dealt. The higher you get the more meaningful +1% resist is going to be, it will scale from being a 1% damage reduction when u start at 0% to being a 50% damage reduction when you start at 98%.

Theres a lot of other factors affecting the XP as well, mainly pack size, magic/rare monsters, and the map itself to a lesser degree.

You can also clear lower level maps significantly faster than higher level ones since you spend less time on the boss, can take more risks with rare packs and generally blitz through it a lot faster. Even your looting habits have a big impact.

What I would suggest you do is run 74 maps for a while and just check how much exp/hour your getting on the exp bar. Then do the same for 75's and then 76's. This is what I did leveling between 88 and 92, I found I gained about 50-100% more exp per hour each time I went up a map level due to 3 main factors: clear speed, base exp, exp penalty.

I measured maps from 70 up to 76 and that held mostly true, so I'd expect going from 74 to 78, assuming you don't lose a significant amount of clear speed would give about 4-6 more exp/hour.

According to this site:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Monster_experience

The difference between a 64 and a 68 maps is coincidentally 19% more base xp for a white mob. Okay it's not exactly the same mob but still. Roughly 19%.

Anyway I did some tests (all solo, with same character and same gem):
lvl74 map: 233645330 - 232392173 = 1253157 (spawned 0 unique beyond bosses)
lvl76 map: 235071217 - 233645330 = 1425887
lvl76 zana map: 236694393 - 235071217 = 1623176 (spawned 3 unique beyond bosses)
lvl78 map: 237911659 - 236694393 = 1217266 (1 exile & 1 minute defending elreon's relic, which added a lot of xp)

Maps used:
http://postimg.org/image/klouznq61

Yes I failed the vaaling of the 78 map... It ended up giving me crap xp. That's the risk with vaaling higher level maps :/

anyway, the base xp between 74 & 76 is between ~14% & ~33%. But when we apply the xp penalty on top of that, it becomes somewhat lower.
The 78 map actually gave me the least xp. Even less than the free zana map and the 74 map. But okay I rolled the mods extremely bad. A map like this should probably give more:

But I rather rotate these maps than solo them :/

So basically, map mods, monster types and map-area are more important than map level! And clearspeed of course. Rare monsters, magic monsters and beyond = LOADS of xp. More than packsize I believe.
I got this feeling that the base xp is not that much different. But we need more tests.

However, so far my opinion is still that just alcing random lvl 74-75 maps and speedrunning them with some insane clear build (like ele crit wripper) will just give slightly less xp per hour while allowing you to sustain your own maps, thus not losing currency but instead gaining.

I must also add that map mods and the iiq gained are far from balanced. Some easy mods give a lot of iiq compared to some hard mods. But it depends per build I guess. I can run all except ele reflect and blood magic.


Also the labyrinth maps (lvl74) seem to give more xp on average compared to the lvl78 maps. And it does not have that nasty op chaos damage boss (tunneler).
Please tell me I do something wrong because this feels so imbalanced.


UPDATE:
Tried another map (jungle valley 74, 27% rare, 21% magic, 14% packsize)
26311808 - 24890881 = 1420927
This is the same as the first 76 map... The more I test the more I find out that high level maps = pile of crap. It's cheaper&easier to sustain rolling lower level maps with better xp mods.

white 73 strand map (no full clear): 1085232
blue 73 crematorium map with only a beyond mod as a useful mod: 1448721

Depends on why you're playing.

If you're playing with the goal to get a level 100 character, then sink all your currency into maps and go for it.

If you're playing to obtain currency and gear for new characters, then don't sink a bunch of currency into maps.

Personally I sell all of my 76 and 77 maps and I run anything lower, but I like making lots of different characters and that gets expensive.

But even if you wanna get level 100, it's not worth it imo. The costs don't outscale the tiny extra xp gain unless you got infinite orbs to burn ofcourse. And because the maps are more expensive there is also a chance to vaal it badly, unlike the lower level maps that don't need to be vaaled. Failed vaal = less xp than 74 map.

For me the xp difference must at least be 30-45% to run 76-79 maps. If not, I rather just run cheaper maps and spend a bit more time to get lvl 100 instead. Hell, I can even chaos 74-75 maps a few times if I have too because I save so much currency not running 76+ then. The costs are over 10x more while the xp gain is only a fraction more. And sometimes it's even less.

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silverdash wrote:

But even if you wanna get level 100, it's not worth it imo. The costs don't outscale the tiny extra xp gain unless you got infinite orbs to burn ofcourse. And because the maps are more expensive there is also a chance to vaal it badly, unlike the lower level maps that don't need to be vaaled. Failed vaal = less xp than 74 map.

For me the xp difference must at least be 30-45% to run 76-79 maps. If not, I rather just run cheaper maps and spend a bit more time to get lvl 100 instead. Hell, I can even chaos 74-75 maps a few times if I have too because I save so much currency not running 76+ then. The costs are over 10x more while the xp gain is only a fraction more. And sometimes it's even less.

No they probably don't especially if you factor in the risk of dying to a tough map. With an infinite amount of currency and if you remove the possibility death then it's fastest to run the higher level maps though. That's just in theory though, in practice that's simply not possible for 99.9% of people.