Reasons for GGG's design decisions for RNG gated content

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johnKeys wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

RNG adds the spice to the game. Poker would be boring without RNG. Scrabble would be boring without RNG. Even tetris would be boring without RNG. And so would every ARPG. Also there is a deterministic way to get maps, it's called buying them ;)

man will you please stop?
there is RNG, and there is Path Of Exile RNG.
Path Of Exile takes RNG further than any ARPG ever did, or will.
Path Of Exile takes Economy further than any ARPG ever did, or will.
no one considers that a good thing. heck not even GGG at this point, I bet.
but now that we got that out of the way, I'm going back to my previous post:
that's not going to change. not in this game. not with this game's financial model.
GGG stepped into their own Bear Trap, and they can't get out. it's too late.

I consider how much the economy is needed a good thing.

This idea that you should have access to every part of the content all the time is hilarious. It's something that modern games have put into your mind. You now feel entitled to it just because you play the game. Look at Everquest one of the games that PoE said was an inspiration to them, it's content was also completely gated. In that game you knew that unless you joined the sickest guild possible (that wasn't going to take you unless you spent 16 hours a day playing) you would probably have a hard time seeing the hardest shit. Also back then even if a guild was ready to go when a boss spawned they would often lose out on it because another group got there quicker. A lot of content needed a key as well which you were never going to get unless your uber guild helped you. This content was gated in a different way but it's still gated..

It's OK to not have access to everything all the time. I saw someone earlier complain that at level 88 any map under 77 doesn't move their exp bar. I ran 4 73's last night on my 88 in tempest and got 13% it's not even like that is slow wtf do you expect at that level.. There is something mystical about content that you know you'll probably never get to and in my opinion it makes it all the better when you actually ever do get to do it.

Also as far as it being completely RNG. Look at someone like Etup dude always seems to have top tier maps and always seems to be able to get to 100. Obviously he plays more than us but apparently it is possible since he consistently does it. It's not like one league he's just like aw man im stuck at 87 cuz dis game won't gib me maps QQ.

Basically if you stop feeling entitled to it you won't be so mad that you don't have it.

77 are end game maps dude. You could also try atziri for awhile? acess to atziri is pretty easy farm or cheap to buy.

also, you have that sweet mjolner build to focus on for awhile, invest in that build, it will return on the investment.

trying to run level 80+ maps is counter productive to stacking away currency, farm that 74-76 tier at an alch per map if you want to build some bank.

Didnt i read a thread from you about how you basically skip all the bosses somewhere, as they melt you? dont come in here cussing it up like shit isnt killing you in game, and you have a paper weight on your keyboard and rubber band on mouse button mapping for you, running 100 maps a day, though if you finish that mjolner build, you will be.

You clearly arnt in 73-75 maps your 'entire mapping career', as you have a 77 map in your stash. the 73-75 maps are just cheap to run and good farm. The 78+ maps are exploratory in nature, or extremely expensive to run constantly.

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LostForm wrote:

Didnt i read a thread from you about how you basically skip all the bosses somewhere, as they melt you? dont come in here cussing it up like shit isnt killing you in game, and you have a paper weight on your keyboard and rubber band on mouse button mapping for you, running 100 maps a day, though if you finish that mjolner build, you will be.

You clearly arnt in 73-75 maps your 'entire mapping career', as you have a 77 map in your stash. the 73-75 maps are just cheap to run and good farm. The 78+ maps are exploratory in nature, or extremely expensive to run constantly.

+1, this is getting boring.

If you get so mad, move on. If your only goal is to reach +1 lvl on the only character you play, move on, this game is not for you.

There's plenty to do in this game but you seem to focus only on "I need to get +1 lvl on this character". Well, yeah, the game doesn't let you do that easily. Progress is slowing down a lot at this lvl, that's why most builds are finished at lvl 90. You're not supposed to get lvl 100 on all your characters. If that bothers you, move on. Curse as much as you want on this evil company that is GGG, and let players that like this design enjoy it.

As I've said previously (and everybody ignored), I play solo and mostly self-found on every fresh league, and have no problem building many characters and enjoying them. I've built an Arc Scion on Warbands, found an Hegemony's Era when I reached lvl 87 with her, now I'm levelling an Ice Crash Scion with it (lvl 75 now). And I have a ton of 73-75 maps to run, which is perfectly fine. I also have plenty enough gear and currency.

If I find the progress too slow with this character when I'll reach lvl 90, I'll build a new character with Windripper.


If you don't like this design that encourages you to try many builds and characters, just move on.

fade the all powerful, has clearly the most accomplished characters in this thread, lol, if he even knew the power he beholds, a character he would deride as 'weak' would have him in level 80 maps in one day of party play, but he knows best, so his tirade continues about how only he plays the game.

i've done more level 77 maps than you (no i didnt buy maps, keep grasping friendo):)

party play helps with map drops :)

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Sori3n wrote:

Basically if you stop feeling entitled to it you won't be so mad that you don't have it.

entitled? yeah, probably.
I think I am a tiny bit entitled, wanting to actually experience some of the game's content after two and a half fucking years being locked out of various parts of the game, which keep adding up just as fast as the RNG layers guarding them.
wanting to see some actual reward after beating some ungodly shit for the 1000th time.
wanting to... ah fuck it, never mind. I'm not going to get pissed off by the same bullshit comment.

look, all we "entitled" folk care about the game just as much as you do, if not more.
most of us are not new to gaming (to say the least).
and me? I come from an RPG background, rather than an MMO one. certainly not the Korean version.

Etup? he's not a problem. the guy grinds the heck out of the game, and has an efficient and reliable system of team-work and optimized trade, propelling him to the top consistently.
well done and thumbs up for him.
the problem, however, is people who aren't "Etup" (metaphorically speaking) and who - god forbid - even dare think trade shouldn't be the most important thing in the game...
... more than actually killing monsters is ...
are getting screwed so damn hard, so damn randomly, and for so long - it's just inexcusable.

I enjoy the game so much, I'd play it for 3 more years at least.
it does so many things so well.
but I swear this economy-or-get-put-at-the-mercy-of-RNG design, just drives me insane.
just keeps providing these moments of pure, primal rage where I want nothing more than to log out, uninstall, and never come back.
I don't. but many people do. including a few old Open Beta in-game friends I haven't seen in over a year. probably because they are spoiled, "entitled" little 40-something brats, right?

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FadeXF wrote:

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LostForm wrote:

i've done more level 77 maps than you (no i didnt buy maps, keep grasping friendo):)

It's not ok though - even if you've done 3 level 77 maps - how can you justify that is "ok" when you are level 87?


Like I've said: I've only been mapping - period - from 65>89 and seen one level 77 map - the fact that we're even having this discussion proves there is something majorly wrong. That you are boasting about having done a handful more level 77 maps - because RNG graced you with 1-2 more 77 maps to me... hahaha - man - that's pretty fucked.

So really: I would lay money that our experiences are very similar - and similar to what all other players are likely experiencing - minus "that one guy" who has a horse-shoe up his ass.

ya i would say we are less than one standard deviation from the mean in map drops, though 2-3 people party play will have a different mean (a slightly higher mean).

The difference i dont think it is fucked, i like the design. I dont like games i beat all content in a week, and honestly it was a close run thing to being just that with the way map drops are now.


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johnkeys, are you honestly implying you have been trying to get a high level map for 2 and a half years? You are either by a wide margain the unluckiest guy in the world, or you are full of beans about your actual effort put in. I know you automatically cast charges of rmt against people that have done a max level map, so this does explain some of it i suppose.

Sup guys.

I've been playing for 3 years now. In my time playing, albeit casually due to life, RNG has always been somewhat of a hindrance. To those like me who may put in 2-3 hours a day, you really get nowhere. It usually amounts to hopping on the game, doing a few maps and that's it. Believe me when I say I don't want everything just handed to me. I understand the progressive rise to power mechanic. However now days, if you are not dedicating a LOT of time to the game, it's getting really hard to get anywhere. If you want really nice gear you have to either be extremely lucky, or farm for hours on end and set up a store and peddle whatever gear you find. For those like me who don't have the time, it can get very disheartening.

Take for example my Ice Storm Scion. I messed up my build pretty bad and I have been hunting that one good unique, or an exalt so I can buy regrets. For a week+ now I've gotten jack diddly. Oh, and to farm the 10x regret div card, you need a level 60~ character because Crematorium(Merc) doesn't meet the Lv68 no drop penalty.

you only need 177,147 of the same level 68 map to vendor trade up to a level 79 map, so there's that.

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Take Tetris as an example.

ITT: tetris is a deterministic game, and in no way relies on rng for piece generation.

In actuality though, tetris's rng is a pretty example for how this game works. You know for sure, a new piece is coming, it is up to you how and where to use or dispose of that piece in a meaningful way.