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As I've said before in one of our numerous discussions, GGG sealed the fate of the game's nature when they decided that literally every item should be tradeable. They had to introduce RNG the way they did in order to allow for that fact. This also isn't a problem for anyone as long as they don't categorically deny to trade. On the contrary, it's a good thing because every rare, unique, 6s, RGB linked item and so on has value, even if it's just a couple of shards or orbs. That's the whole point of allowing all-encompassing trade :)
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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Posted byXavderionon Jul 31, 2015, 5:38:41 AM
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You good sir play the wrong game,is what it looks like.
No rest for the wicked.
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Posted byDaienaon Jul 31, 2015, 5:58:32 AM
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The use of RNG to an often brutal extent, layered upon layer upon layer in every aspect of PoE including content gating, isn't actually the problem in and of itself.
The problem is that one can almost completely remove said RNG from every one of those aspects, via trade.
You either roll the D10,000 or flip the double heads coin.
Why is that a problem? I see it as a good thing, either you get lucky or you trade your hard earned loot for it when you have enough.
It is a good thing if you are of a certain mind.
It's a good thing for people that spent hours and hours killing the same goblin that didn't fight back, over and over, in a certain game. It's a good thing for people that killed the same elite in a cellar over and over again in that game. It's a good thing for people who killed a certain purple mob over and over again in a later expansion of that game. It's a good thing for people that did nothing but open chests in that same later expansion. They did all of these things without question until they were patched, because while being the most mundane shit ever, they were the most rewarding, the least resistant path.
This type of player will gladly, without question, take a full BiS gear set for free if offered. Destination > journey, instant power > progression.
I did none of the above, I wouldn't take anything for free, I have no want to skip progression, I value journey > destination, I value progression > instant power. I don't want BiS, I want to ever approach it.
I'd rather throw the die than flip the two heads coin. The die, however, is a D10,000 for no other reason than to discourage throwing it and encourage flipping the win coin instead.
Casually casual.
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Posted byTheAnuharton Jul 31, 2015, 5:58:45 AM
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Play self found you wont have to worry about mid maps let alone high ones dropping. Your main challenge is just beating merciless in 3 months.
OFC I think RNG progress is most retarded thing ever but thats GGGs shitty end game decision gotten worse in 2.0. I dont even have a shop these ladders. Usually by now I'm sporting at least a 6L. But until GGGs gives me a reason to get good gear (plentiful maps) fuck it.
Git R Dun! Last edited by Aim_Deep on Jul 31, 2015, 6:08:22 AM
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Posted byAim_Deepon Jul 31, 2015, 6:01:55 AM
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As I've said before in one of our numerous discussions, GGG sealed the fate of the game's nature when they decided that literally every item should be tradeable. They had to introduce RNG the way they did in order to allow for that fact. This also isn't a problem for anyone as long as they don't categorically deny to trade. On the contrary, it's a good thing because every rare, unique, 6s, RGB linked item and so on has value, even if it's just a couple of shards or orbs. That's the whole point of allowing all-encompassing trade :)
That's ostensibly a good thing for people who trade but then this is only true because they are circumventing the very rng system you are trying so hard to defend. Ironic really. In practice it makes sure you can't 'win' (get around all the cock blocking layering of rng) if you play this as an actual arpg.
I always thought they would see the obvious error in this design and fix it to bring actual game play more in line with trade but it's been so long I doubt they will, which is extraordinarily unethical imo.
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Posted byGeorgAnatolyon Jul 31, 2015, 9:18:05 AM
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It is a good thing if you are of a certain mind.
It's a good thing for people that spent hours and hours killing the same goblin that didn't fight back, over and over, in a certain game. It's a good thing for people that killed the same elite in a cellar over and over again in that game. It's a good thing for people who killed a certain purple mob over and over again in a later expansion of that game. It's a good thing for people that did nothing but open chests in that same later expansion. They did all of these things without question until they were patched, because while being the most mundane shit ever, they were the most rewarding, the least resistant path.
This type of player will gladly, without question, take a full BiS gear set for free if offered. Destination > journey, instant power > progression.
I did none of the above, I wouldn't take anything for free, I have no want to skip progression, I value journey > destination, I value progression > instant power. I don't want BiS, I want to ever approach it.
I'd rather throw the die than flip the two heads coin. The die, however, is a D10,000 for no other reason than to discourage throwing it and encourage flipping the win coin instead.
You're falsely implying that trading is some kind of instawin button. It isn't, it just makes sure you can somewhat deterministically work towards your goal, so the journey is still there. It's also exactly what people who complain about too much RNG want, they just don't want to trade for their determinism. You also accuse people of choosing the least resistant path while at the same time wanting your path to become less resistant. I don't get it.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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Posted byXavderionon Jul 31, 2015, 9:41:12 AM
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As I've said before in one of our numerous discussions, GGG sealed the fate of the game's nature when they decided that literally every item should be tradeable. They had to introduce RNG the way they did in order to allow for that fact. This also isn't a problem for anyone as long as they don't categorically deny to trade. On the contrary, it's a good thing because every rare, unique, 6s, RGB linked item and so on has value, even if it's just a couple of shards or orbs. That's the whole point of allowing all-encompassing trade :)
That's ostensibly a good thing for people who trade but then this is only true because they are circumventing the very rng system you are trying so hard to defend. Ironic really. In practice it makes sure you can't 'win' (get around all the cock blocking layering of rng) if you play this as an actual arpg.
I always thought they would see the obvious error in this design and fix it to bring actual game play more in line with trade but it's been so long I doubt they will, which is extraordinarily unethical imo.
There's nothing ironic about it. The goal is to make items that drop valuable. How do you do this? You make them tradeable. That's the whole point. Now in order to make that happen you need RNG. Without RNG there is no need to trade. So no, nobody is "circumventing RNG", that doesn't make sense at all.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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Posted byXavderionon Jul 31, 2015, 9:45:18 AM
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As I've said before in one of our numerous discussions, GGG sealed the fate of the game's nature when they decided that literally every item should be tradeable. They had to introduce RNG the way they did in order to allow for that fact. This also isn't a problem for anyone as long as they don't categorically deny to trade. On the contrary, it's a good thing because every rare, unique, 6s, RGB linked item and so on has value, even if it's just a couple of shards or orbs. That's the whole point of allowing all-encompassing trade :)
That's ostensibly a good thing for people who trade but then this is only true because they are circumventing the very rng system you are trying so hard to defend. Ironic really. In practice it makes sure you can't 'win' (get around all the cock blocking layering of rng) if you play this as an actual arpg.
I always thought they would see the obvious error in this design and fix it to bring actual game play more in line with trade but it's been so long I doubt they will, which is extraordinarily unethical imo.
There's nothing ironic about it. The goal is to make items that drop valuable. How do you do this? You make them tradeable. That's the whole point. Now in order to make that happen you need RNG. Without RNG there is no need to trade. So no, nobody is "circumventing RNG", that doesn't make sense at all.
I have no doubt this doesn't make sense to you.
I'm starting to feel like you are purposefully neglecting obvious facts or you are trying troll so I'm not going to continue this conversation.
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Posted byGeorgAnatolyon Jul 31, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
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There's nothing ironic about it. The goal is to make items that drop valuable. How do you do this? You make them tradeable. That's the whole point. Now in order to make that happen you need RNG. Without RNG there is no need to trade. So no, nobody is "circumventing RNG", that doesn't make sense at all.
I have no doubt this doesn't make sense to you.
I'm starting to feel like you are purposefully neglecting obvious facts or you are trying troll so I'm not going to continue this conversation.
Once people start emphasizing how obvious their "facts" are I know I have won the debate :3
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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Posted byXavderionon Jul 31, 2015, 10:48:38 AM
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trade doesnt circumvent rng, value is in part set by rarity, which is accomplished with RNG. Therefore trade encompasses the rng, not circumvent, as the whole thing is set up on the back of rng. Without harsh and improbable rng, you dont have upper echelon trade items, there is no way to bring drops 'in line with trade' as that would just kill trade, and the idea of economical value, and your wants are not more right or factual than GGG's or players' (that enjoy trade) wants. which is what xav is describing as I read it.
Hey...is this thing on?
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Posted byLostFormon Jul 31, 2015, 11:06:50 AM
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