[Biased feedback] Doryani's fist item design

item in question :



I love the basic concept of these gloves, however it becomes fairly apparent how limited these gloves are extremely easy.
And most of it's issue's are similar to the issue's that currently exist around elemental "attack" based builds.

1) lack of leech option

Like all elemental builds, you need a gem slot for a leech gem or some X item that gives a very tiny amount of it.
Alternatively there is of course warlords mark, but then your entire build is pushed out of "curse immune" maps.

2) fortify

I mentioned this in beta, fortify being restricted to "physical damage%" only, is beyond ridicules considering the vast scope of melee attack builds present in the game.

Both of these issue's get highlighted when playing with these gloves, since you are additionally restricted to the "unarmed" modifier if you want to actually utilize them.

Now what does this mean in a real combat environment?

1) Weapon elemental attack damage is out, since it requires a weapon to function you no longer have this option to scale your damage.
This WOULD be fine in theory since it's base damage is high, but then you take a little peak at
"hyaons furry" which has a tiny fraction less damage, but has higher base attack speed/crit to work with and can also utilize WeD on-top of its damage scaling.

2) fortify + unarmed, extremely troublesome to utilize with these gloves. At least in facebreakers builds the physical component is actually extremely relevant since it has a MORE multiplier, which synergizes greatly with fortify.

There is a lack of QOL friendly fortify appliers, currently i am restricted to either

- shield charge + fortify
- frenzy + fortify

Both skills require "on hit" targeting, which makes them extremely troublesome to utilize in a combat environment. I would link it in my main ice crash, but there is simply no benefit to doing it other then the ease of use. Also i am extremely gem starved when using these gloves.

3) gem utility with these gloves

Buckle up boys, here comes the real punishment when using these gloves

1) limited to cyclone and ice crash exclusively.
reasoning : only skills that can be utilized unarmed with an AOE modifier
-Ice crash is clearly favored in this case since you want to shock stuff, so while cyclone is an "option", in reality it is not if you want to at least maximize your inherent potential with these gloves, thus making ice crash the only relevant skill to use with them.

2) conc effect will be your main more multiplier together with lightning penetration, both harsh 140% multiplier. This wouldn't be all that bad if not for point 3)

3) life leach and mana leach gem are some what mandatory on your links due to the limited leach options for elemental builds. You can do stuff to work around that like i am currently doing, but that doesn't mean the "problem" doesn't exist. It just means you need to make even more sacrifices on this build then a regular build already has to perform in order to be "viable" in the current content.

In short, i am making it work, but it is already apparent that it's only solid design is its inherent damage roll when factoring in you can't use WeD.

Some people might think the 30 es on shocked unit is solid, in reality it's irrelevant. It's hardly noticeable if at all.

4) attack speed scaling
Attack speed scaling is a mandatory modifier for creating an end-game viable elemental attack based build.

Guess what? With these gloves you are both limited to a 1.0 attack speed modifier as a base and due to ice crash or cyclone being its primary focused skills to utilize with, your also locked out of multi-strike as a support.

Bummer <.<

Proposed suggestion

Since this is a biased feedback thread, obviously i will suggest some changes that would benefit me! muha!

The one thing that i can think of that would make this item instantly "interesting" and might enhance it's end-game viability would be the following

- Replace it's 30 energy shield on killing a shocked unit and make it "spells only"
- add a modifier with "5% energy shield leech on attacking a shocked enemy's"

There is a reason for suggesting this change though.

1) increase end-game viability
2) improve player choice when designing a theory-craft with this item

This modifier would allow these gloves to be used on hybrid builds and on EB oriented builds to sustain cost. While still requiring effort to build around it (due to its "on shock" limitation)

I hope this was an interesting read for people.

More so i hope the designer of this item reads this thread, because while i love it's design and orientation (DA TOUCH OF GOD) it is in fact severely lacking in utility currently, both due to its inherent limitations and the current mechanical limitations of elemental attack based builds.

All of these pile up to make this item "interesting yet non-viable" when it comes to end-game. It needs another attribute/kicker to become something worth-while and interesting. Just putting a bunch of high damage on it isn't cutting it.

I do however believe the base damage rolls on it are "in line" with it's design and should not be altered.

Peace,

-Boem-

Note : by endgame viable i mean anything 74+ related. Of course you can use these in 68 maps up to 72 probably, but that wouldn't be the gloves performing, more so it would be gear outperforming content in order to make the gloves function. Which shouldn't be desired for an item that pigeon holds you like this.

@GGG if anybody reads this, please forward it to the relevant unique designer(s) if at all possible.
Would be much appreciated.

Edit : changed my suggestion

After cleaning up my house a bit, a very zen thing to do. I realized just how biased my suggestion actually was and how completely unbalanced it would be for spell casters.

So i changed it up to become more targeted and as such more balanced.

Since i am tackling these gloves from a melee orientation i forgot to realize the implementations for spell casters using these.

My original suggestion was :

remove the 30 es on shocked kill

replace with 5% energy shield leech on shocked enemy's

Clearly OP for arcers and stuff like that.

Thus i changed it to

- 30 es gain with spells on killing a shocked enemy

- 5% energy shield leech on attacking a shocked enemy

This divides both effects over spell users and attackers and rewards them differently. Which i feel is more accurate/beneficial given the difference in play-styles.

Peace,

-Boem-

A bump for the touch of god!

Anybody else have experience with this item?

Or would like to add anything to this feedback.

Peace,

-Boem-

hey friend , im using these with Comk Cyclone and so far they work more then fine up to 76 maps (clearspeed is amazing) .

The fortify thing i agree with fully , im using it in my main skill and i can't for the life of me understand why it wouldn't work with elemental damage.

For lifeleech i use atziri's promise , but so far i havent picked up ghost reaver so it's hard to tell how much it helps out (2k es 5k life so it doesnt seem worthwhile as of yet)

mana issues are solved with some curse on hit poachers mark action and a hybrid instant instead of a divine , But the main solution for this is Vaal clarity , with a lvl 20 vaal clarity and 18/20 or something increased duration it lasts about 17 seconds , which is with the amazing clearspeed not any issues to keep up, so mostly i just chain vaal clarity's through the map.

I have tried running conc aswell to reach about 17k dps myself , but i feel that another spell on ComK works better so far so i just swap it in vs certain bosses.

But , the gloves are awesome and amazing , playing with them is glorious and ComK is an amazing build with them :D.

Um, doesn't Fortify work with all melee attacks?

edit and with all damage?

Wiki says so.

Like I already said in a other thread there are some other ways to leech life with these gloves:

It still isn't much but it could work if only there was a way to push the damage way up like with the phys facebreakers. Problem with lightning damage is you can deal a good hit of lets say 5000 but the next hit could easily be 50. Having a low and high damage value with lighting makes it very unreliable.

I like the 30 es on shocked kill that could make these gloves work even better with a ES based build. It's even nice for a low life build. and a low life build is exactly what I tried when I first got these gloves.

So I had shav. those 2 above items the gloves and crown of eyes + high spell dmg shield + high es boots. the other ring and ammy wern't that interesting. I tried many ways with and without BM but in the end highest I could push was almost 20k DPS with a almost single target cyclone I picked all the area of effect nodes (and in the end even tried a carcass jack. but because of the lack of herald of ash and other area of effect improvements I could not get it to work as well.

I could see these gloves working but IMO all you need is more area of effect/area damage.
and maybe a gem like increased elemental damage (they should drop the weapon part)

In the end I agree these need some more love :)

Glad to see some responses :)

I honestly did not know that ring existed Paladin, and it does indeed look pretty sweet for a build utilizing these gloves.

The belt i know of, however there is already a very demanding tax in therms of gear on a char utilizing these

1) your gloves slot is fixed and doesn't offer life/resist
2) you lose the weapon slot

Well you can have a look at my set-up if you want, i push 17k dps with life leech in my links currently (5-linked only) and i have 5k hp which for a right side + top passive tree seems to be really solid in the current game state.

I am not utilizing atziri's promise currently, because i believe you should test a build for it's core functionality before throwing "bonus loot" on top of it.(like the ring mentioned/the atziri belt/atziri flask etc)

@Khemintiri

I pondered the utility of ComK and i might utilize it in a 6-link, but my main focus was to make a melee oriented
"touch of god!" build :)

Ill have a look at your set-up and edit my post afterwards if required.

Edit : the build seems pretty solid, you can have a look at mine and see i went a completely different route though :).
My main gripe though is that the build falls extremely short when you cannot utilize curses. I cant imagine you being able to run a map with curse immunity for example since your sustain comes from poachers mark coupled with vaal clarity.

What's your cyclone dps at? I don't think it is that high? And how can you do bosses in 100% 76 maps for example?

Would be quite interested to hear about those experiences. Specifically a curse immunity hard 76 map.

To be honest my build is far from complete and i will have a lot of adjustments to do before making a final conclusion. But i am very glad you got it to work.

Peace,

-Boem-

The increased physical damage effect is anyways pretty small (I go from 14850 DPS to 15900 DPS with a lvl 16 Fortify, Cyclone with Hatred + HoA). I use another skill to proc Fortify, because all other links in my Cyclone are more important / give much more damage.

"

Boem wrote:

Glad to see some responses :)

I honestly did not know that ring existed Paladin, and it does indeed look pretty sweet for a build utilizing these gloves.

The belt i know of, however there is already a very demanding tax in therms of gear on a char utilizing these

1) your gloves slot is fixed and doesn't offer life/resist
2) you lose the weapon slot

Well you can have a look at my set-up if you want, i push 17k dps with life leech in my links currently (5-linked only) and i have 5k hp which for a right side + top passive tree seems to be really solid in the current game state.

I am not utilizing atziri's promise currently, because i believe you should test a build for it's core functionality before throwing "bonus loot" on top of it.(like the ring mentioned/the atziri belt/atziri flask etc)

@Khemintiri

I pondered the utility of ComK and i might utilize it in a 6-link, but my main focus was to make a melee oriented
"touch of god!" build :)

Ill have a look at your set-up and edit my post afterwards if required.

Edit : the build seems pretty solid, you can have a look at mine and see i went a completely different route though :).
My main gripe though is that the build falls extremely short when you cannot utilize curses. I cant imagine you being able to run a map with curse immunity for example since your sustain comes from poachers mark coupled with vaal clarity.

What's your cyclone dps at? I don't think it is that high? And how can you do bosses in 100% 76 maps for example?

Would be quite interested to hear about those experiences. Specifically a curse immunity hard 76 map.

To be honest my build is far from complete and i will have a lot of adjustments to do before making a final conclusion. But i am very glad you got it to work.

Peace,

-Boem-

Hello again , i do run non curse maps , losing out a lot of dps due to the 4 frenzy charges though and if it's paired with slower regen im kinda solely relying on vaal clarity.

I do most bosses without any issue , im staying clear of the ones i almost always stay clear of when playing melee (Cole , Dominus , vaal in temp chains or chilled ground or hasted , museum trio , shock and horror , orchard , merveil and im guessing some more of the higher level ones , have only gotten up to 77 maps so far) and this is more with them being not worth the risk then me not thinking i can do them , as im playing in a hardcore league i dont risk my melee characters lifes that easely.

I have 10.5k dps with cyclone , this is with charges , atziri flask , onslaught (which is at constant uptime with herald) , all the buffs are on 100% when fighting as the clearspeed is just so great .

I have played this game for quite a while now , and 10.5k dps together with pen is enough to do most bosses , some have a lot more hp but then are usually accompanied with adds which makes on and off fighting really good with ComK.

I just recently got the 6link btw , ran 5link Comk before and it was quite good aswell , so far i think the build is really good but i could use 1000 more es and 3k more armour aswell as ghost reaver to make it really beast.