Mapping in the awakening is retarded...........

I've had conversations with a lot of the top players in hardcore, temp leagues time and time again through onslaught to the current map meta in the awakening about speculations, theories and other topics about how we think map drops work, how we should roll our maps, or just min-maxing quantity to reach the highest quantity we can inside the map and hope it produces.

Previous leagues I always use to stand by running your highest map possible every single time will eventually yeild a few returns and +1/2s and when strongboxes were added to the main-game I use to just hope that my luck would be on my side and hopefully get a carto in a high maps that would yeild map returns.

The problem time and time again is investment. You're almost going to spend more currency rolling the map at any given map level (mainly 75+ maps) and pray rng is on your side to produce maps.

The problem with investment is the sink.

Let's put it this way, In tempest 76 maps sell for on average around 6-7 chaos. If you're running 75 maps currently and you're chiseling, alching, chaosing your maps you soon eventually realize that you're spending the 'same amount' of money if not more than buying that next tier map from somebody selling higher maps.

I've always had a good map base in previous leagues some due to sheer luck, some cartos, some due to building around a 72-73 base than running my highest that way if i fell backwards I would land on that base not 66 maps(68 maps now)

I've always speculated and I'm sure it's inaccurate and I'm not a good source to be fairly honest, I just have ran a lot of maps over the years as has many others and I just feel like when it comes to maps I know what I am talking about.

I think rolling for magic packs, packsize in the past weren't the brightest of ideas, Certainly was the best 'experience' and sure while it was a better chance of yeilding returns I don't believe it would've mattered if you rolled a map with those mods. Many can disagree but once again I speculated.

I remember if you did a map without magic packs rolled but got a lot of magic packs inside the map it normally produced maps rather than blanking.

I don't think it matters personally whether or not you roll the map keep it white, blue, rare, corrupt it, roll zana mods or anything will increase or decrease your chances of sustaining a map base.

Chris did say in a e-mail that quantity 'does increase your likelihood' of recieving maps, Although even with that being said I think it's a lie.

Back to the awakening, The brutal map progession.

Don't get me wrong I kind of understand where they were trying to go with these changes although I think it was poorly executed.

- Rares no longer drop +2's.

As much as they have made bosses drop a map with a flat 20% chance to do so I still think relying on the boss to drop a +2 is very very stupid. Especially 74-tilesets. Not a lot of builds do jungle valley boss, Torture chamber boss, Labyrinth boss. That pretty much eliminates the chances of getting a +2 because a lot of people dodge those bosses because they're not exactly friendly to fight in comparison to every 75 boss that exists such as the golem in dry pen, lord of the bow in canyon, oak in dark forest, the dog in cells and so on (I am talking hardcore not softcore related). The fights in the 75 tilesets are so much more basic and easy compared to those in 74s.

- Next Tier Maps rarely exist.

I've spoked to quite a few friends, a lot of the people I specifically play with when I play this game and a lot of them know what I am about to say.

I ran 73-74 maps in tempest up until 92. 92.... I ran them for over a course of 4-5 days or something before I even seen my first 75, I was playing consistantly at around 15-17 hours a day depending on the mood of everybody else. My play-time was about a day behind etups currently and he was chaining high-end maps.

Alright, so I finally get to 75 maps. We managed to sustain around there for a few hours and built up around 15 75s before we called it a night. The next day when we woke up my mate wanted to run his maps to build up while I kept running my highest and hoping for returns.

I ran my highest maps I chained a few orchards (not doing the boss because it almost 1 shot me with 8K life) and every single map blanked. I went from 15 77s to 0 in a few hours, no returns. literally.

- Zana mods/Quantity.

I rolled onslaught on 75% of my maps if those who don't know what onslaught does it basically is the first temp league ever introduced (similar to that of the fleet mod on maps) and it adds 40% quantity and 40% Increased Monster Move, Cast & Attack Speed.

We were running 150Q maps and they still blanked. That's one of the biggest problems this game will ever face is quantity in maps and how it actually works.

I understand maps can still not produce and that is how rng works although if you run 150Q+ maps and it blanks continously god help us.....

- Hidden map drop(speculation)

It's a odd speculation. Hard to explain, I just really think when it comes to maps 'speculating' and such that something like this possibly exists could be real but i don't know. I'm probably paranoid lol but when I'm higher level I feel like it's easier to sustain a tier of maps easier than it would be at a lower level. There's more...

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Overall I don't like the changes of the new map system and the way it works, I understand that high end maps should recieve diminishing returns although the barrier that's up right now between the 74-79 bracket is so retarded that I actually feel sorry if you're a casual poe player wanting to reach high end maps because you will never 'guaranteed' make it there.

There's probably more I could add to this post although with the current state of maps I don't know how much longer I can withstand chaining lows hoping for a high. Poor design.


Feel free to comment anything, questions, anything at all I don't mind answering anything.

I could go on about what I think is wrong with the awakening in general but I'm sure it already speaks for itself.

- Radius

Mapping in this game is retarded. It's a terrible design. Players should be able to easily maintain a map pool of the hardest content they can manage. Anything else is poor design because it makes people run content that's too easy for them and they get bored and end up not enjoying themselves.

I never seen a end game like this. All other game from tetris to D3 rifts you go until brick wall. Not this one you spend 90% of your time face rolling content too easy for you for a shot at something decent.

I don't know who to blame GGG's balence team who think gating the content because ''people are getting to 100 much easier'' or the .1% who can maintain because they have infinite resources via viewers or buying it from trade.

GGG's like okay lets gate the content so they don't get to 100 fast in return we screw the others players over however the .1% will still remain and will still get to 100. Good? Alright lets do that

I really do question their design I swear or whatever there thinking.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Mapping in this game is retarded. It's terrible design. Players should be able to easily maintain a map pool of the hardest content they can manage. Anything else is poor design because it makes people run content that's too easy for them and they get bored and end up not enjoying themselves.

I never seen a end game like this. All other game you go until brick wall. Not this one you spend 90% of your time face rolling content too easy for you for a shot at something decent.

I don't think it should be easy, Although they should just reintroduce +2 on rares. Somebody shouldn't have to chain endless hours before reaching that tier bracket for maps. I think it's unfair to casuals and that even though I am a hardcore player and grind hours on end it shouldn't only cater to those who do grind that log.

The end-game in this game is really horrific compared to other games. Diablo 3 set's a good example. Reach 70 do bounties, Do rifts/greater rift. That's the end-game there's no gateway blocking you from chaining 82 maps like in path of exile. The end-game is already there in diablo 3.

Don't get me wrong I love path of exile and it's developers although they really do make poor choices and people praising bad choices overall leads the game into a shitter that's about to explode.

"

I don't know who to blame GGG's balence team who think gating the content because ''people are getting to 100 much easier'' or the .1% who can maintain because they have infinite resources via viewers or buying it from trade.

GGG's like okay lets gate the content so they don't get to 100 fast in return we screw the others players over however the .1% will still remain and will still get to 100. Good? Alright lets do that

I really do question their design I swear or whatever there thinking.

Exactly. Literally exactly my point.

Less than 1% of the community is in higher maps (i will exclude hardcore and standard) just because I'm sure 70% of the current player base play temporary leagues whether they're either of those players.

I think their balance team isn't a proper balance team. They've never executed things properly in all the times I have played this game and when they do it's already too late or mid league after consequences have happened.

I think they need to understand that this is a game, it's meant to be enjoyed it should be very accessible for newer players to reach that content while 'investing' a reasonable amount of time and effort before they reach it.

This expansion has set the worst example possible, don't get me wrong I do enjoy Act-4 but overall the map system is only catering to 'hardcore players who play 18hr days'

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0RadiusTwo wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Mapping in this game is retarded. It's terrible design. Players should be able to easily maintain a map pool of the hardest content they can manage. Anything else is poor design because it makes people run content that's too easy for them and they get bored and end up not enjoying themselves.

I never seen a end game like this. All other game you go until brick wall. Not this one you spend 90% of your time face rolling content too easy for you for a shot at something decent.

I don't think it should be easy, Although they should just reintroduce +2 on rares. Somebody shouldn't have to chain endless hours before reaching that tier bracket for maps. I think it's unfair to casuals and that even though I am a hardcore player and grind hours on end it shouldn't only cater to those who do grind that log.

The end-game in this game is really horrific compared to other games. Diablo 3 set's a good example. Reach 70 do bounties, Do rifts/greater rift. That's the end-game there's no gateway blocking you from chaining 82 maps like in path of exile. The end-game is already there in diablo 3.

Don't get me wrong I love path of exile and it's developers although they really do make poor choices and people praising bad choices overall leads the game into a shitter that's about to explode.

You dont think it should be easy? You mention D3 what if after completing a 29 rift they made you do 6 23 rifts before you found another shot at 29 again, which you already did. Thats retarded and what GGG maps make you do.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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0RadiusTwo wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Mapping in this game is retarded. It's terrible design. Players should be able to easily maintain a map pool of the hardest content they can manage. Anything else is poor design because it makes people run content that's too easy for them and they get bored and end up not enjoying themselves.

I never seen a end game like this. All other game you go until brick wall. Not this one you spend 90% of your time face rolling content too easy for you for a shot at something decent.

I don't think it should be easy, Although they should just reintroduce +2 on rares. Somebody shouldn't have to chain endless hours before reaching that tier bracket for maps. I think it's unfair to casuals and that even though I am a hardcore player and grind hours on end it shouldn't only cater to those who do grind that log.

The end-game in this game is really horrific compared to other games. Diablo 3 set's a good example. Reach 70 do bounties, Do rifts/greater rift. That's the end-game there's no gateway blocking you from chaining 82 maps like in path of exile. The end-game is already there in diablo 3.

Don't get me wrong I love path of exile and it's developers although they really do make poor choices and people praising bad choices overall leads the game into a shitter that's about to explode.

You dont think it should be easy? You mention D3 what is after completing a 29 rift they made you do 6 23 rifts before you found another shot at 29 again, which you already did. Thats retarded and what GGG maps make you do.

What I meant if i said it incorrectly is I know you get a key or atleast thats how it was when I was last playing diablo 3 is that you reach 70 and you get a key from doing bounties (which has the reward already) Then you get into rifts to get shards + a chance for a trial key open the trial (which is the only gateway to greater rifts) and then it determines where you are best suited for that rift.

That's what I meant by end-game there vs endgame here. I must've not typed what I meant to say was I don't think it should be a lot easier, although a lot more slightly common so in otherwords reintroducing +2 drops on rares and exiles. That shouldn't of been removed to begin with.

RNG at the end of the day but wayyyyyyy to much of it on this game vs other arpgs.

I do like a lot of the changes in 2.0 but the one i don't like is how they have changed the map progression. I totaly agree that it should be harder to reach high level maps than in 1.3 but i am not a fan of the currrent state of maps.

I did many maps over the last days:
68s-72s - you don't even have to run them blue to progress, which is stupid and too easy
73s-74s - you are somewhat able to sustain them by alching and running >80% quantity + >10% packsize

75s-76s - run a few of them with multiple damage mods, curses and >100% qantity + >20% packsize and wasn't able to sustain them as a solo player, which makes me sad.

77s and above - If you are playing without a party simply forget it - you can not sustain them despite doing multiple scary ripy mods all at once getting >100% quantity + >20% packsize. Maybe vaal orbing them too may help a little bit.


I personlay like hard map progression, but i don't like gated endgame content. I don't like doing 72-73 maps with a level 87 character because they are to easiy and don't feel rewarding. I also don't like the fact that i likly will never see a 79/80+ map in my PoE career because i like to play solo (i would party for higher maps if i could, but i can't because of having a potato PC)


I would really like to see map progression beeing ajusted for solo players.

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Wiesl_1404 wrote:

I do like a lot of the changes in 2.0 but the one i don't like is how they have changed the map progression. I totaly agree that it should be harder to reach high level maps than in 1.3 but i am not a fan of the currrent state of maps.

I did many maps over the last days:
68s-72s - you don't even have to run them blue to progress, which is stupid and too easy
73s-74s - you are somewhat able to sustain them by alching and running >80% quantity + >10% packsize

75s-76s - run a few of them with multiple damage mods, curses and >100% qantity + >20% packsize and wasn't able to sustain them as a solo player, which makes me sad.

77s and above - If you are playing without a party simply forget it - you can not sustain them despite doing multiple scary ripy mods all at once getting >100% quantity + >20% packsize. Maybe vaal orbing them too may help a little bit.


I personlay like hard map progression, but i don't like gated endgame content. I don't like doing 72-73 maps with a level 87 character because they are to easiy and don't feel rewarding. I also don't like the fact that i likly will never see a 79/80+ map in my PoE career because i like to play solo (i would party for higher maps if i could, but i can't because of having a potato PC)


I would really like to see map progression beeing ajusted for solo players.

Exactly. Literally how i feel. I wish chris would understand it how we all think..

I do like hard map progression but not being gated at 74s with a level 92 character. The experience is awful theres no real gain to doing so and as a solo player not very rewarding. I'm glad the comments on here have been understanding so far, I'm interested to see what more people think about the changes and if they think it helps or doesn't help them.

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I don't know who to blame GGG's balence team who think gating the content because ''people are getting to 100 much easier'' or the .1% who can maintain because they have infinite resources via viewers or buying it from trade.

I wouldn't blame the balance team, they just do what top brass says. I'd blame the decision makers, who think ARPG endgame should be about shopping, instead of gameplay difficulty based progression.

PoE 2.0 endgame: spend 15 mins in shopping, aquiring alc, chisel, chaos, sac.frags, selling things... so you can afford to roll your next map and play 10 mins of it.