Chaos Inoculation Help

Anyone who says CI is in a great spot for tanking clearly never played CI in 2.0 and has no idea of what he is talking about.
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Zybeline2 wrote:
Anyone who says CI is in a great spot for tanking clearly never played CI in 2.0 and has no idea of what he is talking about.


Or they are doing it right.
3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
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Zybeline2 wrote:
Anyone who says CI is in a great spot for tanking clearly never played CI in 2.0 and has no idea of what he is talking about.

I disagree with your generalization.

While not the most popular builds around, my Scionic Flametank (CI-ZO-GR) (decent damage, strong tank) and Dy'Ness tank (CI-ZO) (extreme tank, the original that inspired my own build) do just fine in 2.0 and we are having great fun tanking everything the game throws against us and so do those who play our builds and provide feedback in our threads.

The value of CI to these builds lies in the 15% MORE ES, which means 15% more regeneration - and that's huge for tanks whose primary survival mechanic is passive regeneration. The 100% chaos resistance is nice too, but it is a fringe benefit.

In our cases, by level 93 I'm regenerating 1900 ES/s with decent gear and Dy'Ness is by level 95 regenerating 3700 ES/s with great gear. At all times. Even if we are stunned, frozen, or have gone for a drink while letting mobs suicide on our passive CWDT defenses. And we hit 70-80% physical damage reduction (against whatever reference hit it is GGG writes in the stat sheet) when we activate our Granite Flasks.

Our CI-ZO tank builds were already very strong in 1.3, and the addition of jewels have made them stronger yet in 2.0 because of the ease of efficient skill-point use for dual damage/ES% purposes.

So I simply cannot agree with your generalization that CI isn't in a great spot for tanking in 2.0. It may very well be that CI is in a poor spot for some other types of CI tanking builds, but that's hardly surprising: few notables are universally great regardless of build.
Scionic Flametank 3.2: The classic ES-CI-ZO-GR regeneration tank is back in business, stronger than ever before with 50-60% ES/s recovery during most fights due to creative use of regeneration, leech, and recovery mechanics
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1271604
Last edited by Pi2rEpsilon on Aug 12, 2015, 9:52:56 AM
Any build can be viable with insane gear, uber atziri, legacy items, 6L 900 es chest, 300 es hand and boots, so nice, after 500 exalts my build works so its viable... With 4000 es/sec sure you can tank anything, but to achieve this number you need hundred of exalts.

You found a way to make CI work, but I can tell you that if you had made the same build life based, it would perform a lot better, be a lot cheaper and be a lot easier and cheaper to play, gear and level. And this is the problem. For all this investment, you gain nothing that makes CI worth.

I am not saying your build is bad, I read it, looked at the mechanics, and it is a nice build.

I am saying that CI is bad because to make it work you had to invest a lot, just to make it work, not to make it stronger. A keystone is not in a good spot when to make it work you need to take over keystones and invest in one mechanic, and in the end CI only advantage is chaos immunity (and a bigger buffer against elemental damages but they are not the threat).

And by the way, where are the attack CI builds? What is the benefit of going CI for an attack based build?

CI should be a keystone that needs a lot of investment and that will allow you to perform a better than life build, but at a greater cost. At the moment it is just a keystone that requires a lot of investment, that is good for some very specific builds, but overall will give you mediocre outcome compared to the same life based build.



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Last edited by Zybeline2 on Aug 12, 2015, 10:27:08 AM
CI makes ES, a gear stat defined by a combination of prefixes, your new lifepoints.
The better your gear, the better your new lifepoints.
So CI is and has always been a playground for the rich.

Everybody else plays a life build, because you only need one single prefix on every item (if at all), not a combo.

That's why I find it a bit silly to complain that you need a ton of currency to make it work.

CI was somewhat viable for "normal players" before 2.0 because leech was broken as hell.
So you could play CI with as much ES as a standard life build has life.
That's not happening any more.

But that's an issue of leech, not of CI.
3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
Last edited by Peterlerock on Aug 12, 2015, 10:36:21 AM
I'm ok with CI being for the riches, its my opinion too. What I am not ok with is that it will peform less good than most of the same life build, what ever you invest in it, even with a lot more investment.
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Zybeline2 wrote:
Any build can be viable with insane gear, uber atziri, legacy items, 6L 900 es chest, 300 es hand and boots, so nice, after 500 exalts my build works so its viable... With 4000 es/sec sure you can tank anything, but to achieve this number you need hundred of exalts.

Well, that is Dy'Ness build and I did say it was extreme. :D

My own Scionic with 1900 ES/s regen now at 14.5k ES and 1300-1400 at the time I wrote the 2.0 guide is rather more modest and the most expensive item I have is a 6L ES chest with 545 ES that I crafted myself, equivalent armours selling at 10-11 Ex on poe.trade. And you only need 4L to make it work. With the gear in my build thread, the most expensive things I had done - apart from spending a lot of armourer's and fusings on making the 6L chest and then alteration until i got a good +ES roll - was spending 1 Ex on an unidentified Vortex Mask and 1 Ex on enchanting one of my rings with Elreon's wonderful Maximum ES% enchant - and when I write that my build is newbie friendly, it is because I was a newbie - with a newbie's resources and knowledge of the game - when I leveled it. :)

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You found a way to make CI work, but I can tell you that if you had made the same build life based, it would perform a lot better, be a lot cheaper and be a lot easier and cheaper to play, gear and level. And this is the problem. For all this investment, you gain nothing that makes CI worth.

I am not saying your build is bad, I read it, looked at the mechanics, and it is a nice build.

I am wondering where all the life-based tank builds relying on regeneration as their primary defense mechanism and armour as secondary are if they, as you say, would be a lot better performing, cheaper, and easier to play, gear, and level, as I mostly read the Scion class forums, where I have not noticed such builds. But I guess Marauder would be the obvious place to look?

A quick look there reveals stuff like this one, but with only 5-6k life, 15k armour, and around 1k life regeneration per second, surely something like this that regenerates as much as my build did back when I had only 8k ES can't be what you are thinking of?

(EDIT: That said, that build looks fun, though 5 active skills are 3-4 too many for my preference.)

Would you be so kind as to direct me to links to some of the builds you are thinking of with life regeneration as primary defense mechanism (and armour as secondary)? Be they life or ES based, I'm betting that some of the tricks the life based regeneration tank builds use would also work for ES and vice versa, and I am always eager to learn.
Scionic Flametank 3.2: The classic ES-CI-ZO-GR regeneration tank is back in business, stronger than ever before with 50-60% ES/s recovery during most fights due to creative use of regeneration, leech, and recovery mechanics
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1271604
Last edited by Pi2rEpsilon on Aug 12, 2015, 11:46:35 AM
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Zybeline2 wrote:
Any build can be viable with insane gear, uber atziri, legacy items, 6L 900 es chest, 300 es hand and boots, so nice, after 500 exalts my build works so its viable... With 4000 es/sec sure you can tank anything, but to achieve this number you need hundred of exalts.

You found a way to make CI work, but I can tell you that if you had made the same build life based, it would perform a lot better, be a lot cheaper and be a lot easier and cheaper to play, gear and level. And this is the problem. For all this investment, you gain nothing that makes CI worth.




with u up to this point, show me your 17k life 4k regen per sec build thats cheaper than the one linked and u can back that up.

But yes, ci is an expensive way to go, I feel like it was always expensive to be worth it, but it is worth it when u go expensive.


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Zybeline2 wrote:

And by the way, where are the attack CI builds? What is the benefit of going CI for an attack based build?






Crit Reave Aegis Ci Witch // lvl94




10,500 es with aegis aurora, outregens bloodrage, very high gear cost. I have life based reavers with same gear levels, they mitigate/avoid more physical attack damage, have a lot less life with which to take damage, dont have aegis, theyre both super strong.



Heres my take on the current meta shift with melee, a lot of lower budget and already suspect builds have been effected. My CI, Coil Evasion and hybrid Armour + Evasion melee builds are completely untouched by the changes, they are everything they were in 1.3, in 1.2... most of my melee builds have been on the go for 2 years or more and none of the shifts over time have made them weaker. At high levels its exactly the same as before, I dont notice the monster damage changes, I dont notice the meta shifts, Im still doing what Ive always been doing. Pure armour was always shit, pure evasion was always shit, budget ci was always shit, people are flipping around from evasion is shit to armour is shit to evasion is shit as the 'meta' changes... no theyre all shit always have been probably always will be, the good setups have always been good and are still good.

Thats how I feel about it. Maybe Im wrong but I feel like Ive always been part of a tiny minority whos been saying melee is fine forever while people playing the 'pure' builds for the most have been bitching about how hard the game is for melee forever so I dont feel any reason to doubt what my experience tells me is the way to go with melee builds. Stack strong mitigation/hp + strong avoidance + strong leech + strong dps = the eternal meta that never changes.

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