Eternal aren't the problem, Mirrors are!

i'm not an high end player and i've never owned an eternal so far, just saying so you understand i'm not talking for self interest.

i realize that the combination of eternal and mirrors had detrimental consequences, but removing eternals is just the wrong thing to do.

they are the only thing allowing high end crafting without relying excusively on the RNG, a good thing in my opinion.
it's not like they drop like candies and every other player is using them, they are very rare and crafting with eternals is very expensive.

eternals allow mid/high level players to attempt a few crafts on a deserving item without the risk of ruining it (for a huge cost) and only the very "elite" are able to craft perfect stuff (spending a ton of currency).
that's fine for me and it's how things should be.

the problem is that once you get a perfect item you can duplicate it as many times as you want with mirrors ruining the economy.

to solve this problem just remove mirrors from the game (making existing ones sellable for a number of EX close to the market value), or even better make eternals apply "cannot be mirrored" on the items you use them on.

While I can get behind what you are saying, there is also part of me that thinks that mirrors are kind of how GGG has always wanted the game to be. Hopefully with the new mod tiers it isn't as difficult to make low end GG items that the average player can reach after some grinding and then essentially has their last item for that slot ever needed if they so choose where upgrades are possible without a ton of investment but then ramps up for the closer to perfect then mirror worthy items.

I may be too optimistic but who knows. All I can say is that the existence of mirrors before eternal probably hints that they are here to stay.

It's the opposite.

You can still theoretically bruteforce a perfect 6x t1 item without Eternals but at much higher costs. What the removal of eternals does, it allows people to use exalted orbs significantly more to try and improve their equipment without "ruining" the item and feeling stupid right after it. Should also bring much more mid high to high level gear to market on temporary leagues (on standard it doesn't really make a difference yet, some people have been stacking up eternals for sometime and I'd expect to see a couple new perfect items within the first few days after patch).

Also, if there were no mirrors, hardly anyone would be crafting with eternals. The mirroring fees are how they cover their costs and craft additional items.

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Grughal wrote:

Also, if there were no mirrors, hardly anyone would be crafting with eternals. The mirroring fees are how they cover their costs and craft additional items.

You mean, beyond the profit of having a best-on-server 6T1 item, for one's own personal use?

Your premise is that, in a world without mirrors, hardly anyone would be trying to craft items superior to the items already on the market. While I agree the push to do so would be diminished, I don't think the behavior would go away. After all, making items better than those on the market is the only thing currency is really good for; it is always cheaper to trade for an upgrade than craft it oneself, if the trade option exists.

What mirrors do is take high-end crafting beyond a gameplay/character profit, and throw in a huge trading profit on top. They take a system which slightly discourages currency use on anything but the absolute highest tier of items, and make it a system which massively discourages it. They take a system where currency is meant to trickle upwards from the poor to the rich, then increase the pressure on that flow to turn a trickle into a geyser.

Now I should point out: the health of the economy depends on that trickle. If currency doesn't flow up, if its best use is not at the hands of the richest, then the poor don't have anything to trade to the rich in exchange for hand-me-down gear. Which would be bad. So there is such a thing as too little pressure, a thing as too much pressure, and somewhere in between a "just right."

Overall, it is my belief the game doesn't need or benefit from the existence of Mirrors, that "yolo" currency use is punished more than need be, and that preventing future Mirror drops would help. I would, however, monitor the situation afterwards to confirm or disconfirm my theory. I wouldn't want high-end crafting to go extinct, I just don't want it to go infinite.

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

While I can get behind what you are saying, there is also part of me that thinks that mirrors are kind of how GGG has always wanted the game to be. Hopefully with the new mod tiers it isn't as difficult to make low end GG items that the average player can reach after some grinding and then essentially has their last item for that slot ever needed if they so choose where upgrades are possible without a ton of investment but then ramps up for the closer to perfect then mirror worthy items.

I may be too optimistic but who knows. All I can say is that the existence of mirrors before eternal probably hints that they are here to stay.

true, mirrors were here first, but of the two they are the unhealthy ones.
eternal are/were the only thing that gives/gave a bit of consistency to crafting and frankly i'm a bit tired of a game where everything is pure RNG.
i never reached the point where i was going to use eternal orbs myself, but it was something to strive to.

also good job removing eternals but leaving all the existin ones, just wait a week to let people understand which items are the best and a couple perfect new items will pop up and the mirroring will begin anew.

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dolan_grey wrote:

eternal are/were the only thing that gives/gave a bit of consistency to crafting

...Mirror-worthy items.

Honestly, if you were using Eternals for any other purpose were wasting Eternals.

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dolan_grey wrote:

frankly i'm a bit tired of a game where everything is pure RNG.

Then why bother playing a Diablo clone like this one?

I dont understand either one when you can beat uber for 5-10ex - let alone all games content

But hell some ppl like to preen like girls walking down the runway so let em

Guys like MAthil are my hero - takes brains and innovation - not axn - anyone can do it with mirrored gears

Let's just remove both mirror and ethernal then

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diablofdb wrote:

Let's just remove both mirror and ethernal then

What for? I never heard one good reason that doesn't border on envy - a toxic emotion.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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diablofdb wrote:

Let's just remove both mirror and ethernal then

What for? I never heard one good reason that doesn't border on envy - a toxic emotion.

Are you saying you didn't read my WoT in this thread, or that it borders on envy?