Development Manifesto - Eternal Orbs - Forum

Removing eternals without the removal or change to mirrors make no sense at all. If you are going to make such a drastic change go the whole way and do it properly. All this piecemeal tweaking is fine if youre just trying to work out what the problem is...the point is you know what the problem is so go all out to fix it! Fix it and make standard not a complete shithole economy. All these people in this thread saying who cares about standard...its the core game for fuck sakes! The temp leagues are all experimental leagues!!	Posted by kurOsawa79 on Jul 7, 2015, 6:40:19 AM Quote this Post
I have never understood why mirrors can be used more than once. ~ Adapt, Improvise and Overcome	Posted by DoubleU on Jul 7, 2015, 7:23:28 AM Quote this Post
Neither have I...	Posted by mare6600 on Jul 7, 2015, 7:28:55 AM Quote this Post
So they remove Eternals instead of Mirrors... Because in 6 months everyone is going to waste a mirror on a shitty 300 dps Maraketh weapon, right? No, they aren't. Should've removed mirrors instead. I realize that "brute force" crafting led to some near perfect gear, but people act like you can play for 5 months and have a pile of mirrored items on your character. I've played since Open Beta and I've only managed to hold one mirrored item in my possession, which I have since traded. Despite what people may think, I don't think this is necessarily a good change for longevity. Having just acquired a legacy Kaom's on HC, my next plan was to start eternal/exalting a sweet two hander to use with it. This would have been a long term project. Now, I'll probably just buy a 500 dps sword and call it a day. This change has actually given me less reason to play in the long term. Team Won	Posted by ggnorekthx on Jul 7, 2015, 7:51:13 AM Quote this Post
" snecko wrote: " bersi23 wrote: Please remove Mirrors aswell, they ruin the whole game economy and the way how players trade and play. Without mirrors, classic item:item trades will be possible again. With mirrors, everybody sells loot for currency to buy one day a mirror and copy a 6t1 item or simply buy an already mirrored copy. That is what I call "BAD economy design". Nobody is interested in fair item:item trades, only if the trade partner overpays. Everybody wanna currency, just currency and nothing else. Almost nobody uses currency, almost everybody is hoarding any currency to convert it into exalts/whatever. As a result, we have a huge inflation because of astronomic amounts of hoarded orbs in game. Is that really how economy in PoE should work? I highly doubt that. this yup. Try and buy fusings to actually use. Its pretty hard, even in new leagues, once all the flippers have them.	Posted by shigs on Jul 7, 2015, 8:04:06 AM Quote this Post
" shigs wrote: yup. Try and buy fusings to actually use. Its pretty hard, even in new leagues, once all the flippers have them. I have never once had trouble buying currency. In fact, last time I decided to randomly buy chaos I got an offer to sell it to me within 30 seconds of me posting a party on the notice board -- and I almost always see people selling fusings. Perhaps the problem is you don't have exalts to trade with, which are generally what people with the lesser currencies want, either that or you're the flipper and aren't offering a fair exchange. Speedy trades means potential loss, but patience works too. Granted I don't think I've ever seen people buy and sell currency in low amounts. I don't think that has much to do with flippers though, but rather time. If I sold 5 fuse to 4 chaos, and only did it in sets like that, I'd never get anywhere. But 50 fuse to 40 chaos, one trade and I might very well be done. Ratio is roughly accurate for current rates in standard, 48-50 fuse to an exalt, 40-42 chaos to an exalt.	Posted by ghoulavenger on Jul 7, 2015, 8:17:29 AM Quote this Post
" ggnorekthx wrote: I realize that "brute force" crafting led to some near perfect gear, but people act like you can play for 5 months and have a pile of mirrored items on your character. unlikely that the removing of the eternal orb happened because of temp leagues. imho the difference is in the orb's distribution among the player base: there is a difference if a player has 3 to 10 eternals and can craft one or two good stats on an item or if eternal orbs get traded alot which eventually let's them end in the hands of some uber-crafters who create mirror worthy items by applying hundreds of them. he latter is what happened and i don't understand chris at all when he says they couldn't see any kind of trading with these orbs?! age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!	Posted by vio on Jul 7, 2015, 8:25:10 AM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" there are people who fit the description you put forward, of course there is. But thats not everyone, dont kid yourself that it is. The bold bit at the end, powerful items? how do you define powerful items? Its a relative term, the most powerful items are the most powerful items, I think most people like those things seeing as this is an item game built around chasing ever more powerful items. But before eternals existed, were there no powerful items? Think about that. Of course there were, there were the most powerful and desired items in the game at that time and people wanted them just like the most powerful and desired items in the game right now. Its a lack of perception and understanding of the overall situation to look at the most powerful items now and judge the most powerful items back then by todays standards, that misses the point entirely. The point is that there will always be "the most powerful items I can get", it doesnt matter how the items in 1 environment compare to another environment, it matters where those items sit in the realms of possibility and what that means for progression. In a situation like the one we had before eternals there was still the top 1% items that the top 1% players were striving for an achieving, its the same situation, the difference is that those items were not the best items possible given the game mods, they were just the best items that happen to have existed. Thats what is important, a perfect item is the end of the road, if its technically not possible to have a better item as is the case with loathe bane, that crazy wand Jake crafted etc, then that is it, done, once you have it theres literally nowhere to go. In a game built around progression thats not good. If perfect items are practically impossible then you still have 'the best item on the entire server' 'the best dagger' 'the best wand' etc, but theres potential there for better, theres no end of the road, any day, any craft might turn over that item that is significantly better and without a complete miracle this will go on forever basically, the end of the road for item progression is 100 years down the line in a game that might last 15 years. That is a good thing, this is something people should want, if you want an end of the road, to be 'finished', to have nowhere else to go then you can uninstall any time you want, while you are still here its far better that theres always that little bit more, forever, for as long as you want to stick with it. You can still have "the best dagger on the server" but if its not the best dagger that can possibly be made, if in fact its significantly far off the best dagger that can possibly exist then theres still something to be in the game for. Its not about hating powerful items and high level characters, its about appreciating the relative nature of gear and the scope for progression that realistically possible gear vs technically possible gear allows for. The eternal + mirror situation destroyed that scope. Is it good to take out eternals? Well, it would have been far, far better to take out mirrors. Is it enough to just take out eternals? not really ebcause while mirrors exist then the harmful gear made with them is still and end of the road for players because they can dupe these unbeatable items that already exist. So no its not ideal and its not enough but that doesnt make it a bad change, its a start, a good start towards getting the item game back to where it should be. Ya, of course theres bitter people who this doesnt effect just cheering out of jealousy, but that doesnt mean everyone who agrees with the change is that guy and it doesnt mean everyone cheering is wrong. I never said "all ppl", I said "vast majority". I absolutely get what ure saying...I actually have the same mentality, there should always be a room for improvement in the long run. Yes, high end items are always high end relative to the rest of the items on the market, thats what defies them. If there is a 100 dps sword and there is nothing better, its the best sword. The thing is, the game evolved. U cant expect ppl to be satisfied with sub par gear after YEARS of playing...if you invenst hundreds, even thousands of hours leveling, farming items, trading etc u want to get the best gear possible. For me and many other ppl, who play std for a long time, obtaining 1 mirror worthy item is not the "end of the road" like you see it. Cos, after all, its just 1 item. I farm, exp, trade all the time, grind yellows, put the good yellows on my forum shop, stay online 24/7 so I can trade with whoever wants to buy any of my items...after some time, I am able to afford a mirror worthy wand for my wander for example, I feel satisfaction, I worked hard towards something and it paid off. Now the next step is obtaining a shield and the list goes on...and trust me, getting full slots of mirror worthy gear is not something easy...it will take shitloads of time, game knowledge, knowing the market, knowing the items etc etc...it takes hundreds, thousands of hours in a legit way and its hell of a work (ofc there are ppl who will just bring their wallet, buy ex for real money and get their equipment but thats not something that is intended nor its something that is worth talking about cos RMT will always be here). If you want to remove eternals and mirrors from the game, the whole game would need to get totally rebalanced. There is literally 0% chance u can drop anything even remotely close to current mirror worthy gear, such gear can only be crafted. There would have to massive changes in terms of t1 mod drop occurence, maybe some method, that would allow to make a high end items through mastercrafting etc. TLDR: Simply put, u cant expect ppl to grind years for sub par gear, cos obtaining a powerful gear without et/ex crafting is not possible (except some good uniques obviously). If you want to remove eternals/mirrors, the game would need to be fully rebalanced. And for ppl, who constantly shout "competitive environment" or w/e, jesus christ, this is PVE game....I turn it on to slain monsters and get better items, how is this a competitive game pls? Who am I gonna compete with? Its as ridiculous as PVP in a game like this (or diablo for that matter), it can NEVER be balanced cos its based on level and gear. If I want to play competitive, balanced game I can play SC II, LoL, DOTA II, CS:GO etc but not a game that is about slaying monsters lol.	Posted by Aerinqq on Jul 7, 2015, 8:55:58 AM Quote this Post
Thank you for this GGG, going back on a decision as big as this is why I love you guys!!!!!!	Posted by LobsterEater on Jul 7, 2015, 9:25:36 AM Quote this Post
Well, to be honest removing Eternal is not a bad idea itself, however it will cause more problems in regards to exalted orb and mirror than it does good. Yes, you can yolo exalted for maybe 1 or 2 mods, but I bet nobody in their right might would gamble by yolo exalting an item already with 3 or 4 top tier rolls, chances are you WILL (99.99% of the time) ruin your best item for GOOD. My suggestion is that GGG would need to come up with a new option for player to actually REMOVE a crafted mod. For example, there will be an npc (or master) where you can remove a mod on your item with a price of 2~5 (or more) exalted orbs depends on how many mods left available on your item. This will actually solve a lot of problems (in my humble option :) ), to be name a few 1. At the moment for most people, even if they have exalted orbs, they WILL NOT use them for crafting because they do not have eternal orbs to recover their item if something goes wrong (situation where, yes I have 100ex but I can craft jackshit because I don't have any eternal). They would just save up the orbs to trade for the item that they want. Allowing people to remove a mod by using exalted orb would actually encourage (or force :) ) people to ACTUALLY USE the exalted orb to create their desired item. 2. How many of you out there have found items with a few good mods but have a bad mod which utterly ruin the item for good? Imagine what happen if you can remove the bad mod using exalted orbs and then use those items for your crafting base? Once again it will encourage people TO USE THEIR $^$@#$@^ EXALTED ORBS for a good cause. Yes if they are lucky, there will be more GG items, but if you think about it, the more people have GG items, the better it is for the economy, buyers will have more choices in regards to what item should they trade for or to mirror, unlike at the time being where only a few wealthy players monopolize the economy by charging ridiculous fee to mirror an item where buyers have no choice but to abide to their rule if they want an item (cough* AX.. cough*) 3. The value of exalted orb will be as it should be, valuable but expendable. Seriously, how many of you have found more than 20 exalted orbs in your total play time (no trading)? I know I have not, will you use your hard earned exalted for gambling with more chance to loose than to win? of course not, so a safety measure IS required. 4. The more people use a certain type of currency orb the more demands arise ---> better for economy those 4 reasons are what I could think on of top of my head, if you guys got anything more to add, please by all mean share it with me and other players :) Last edited by matrix2kol on Jul 7, 2015, 9:41:00 AM	Posted by matrix2kol on Jul 7, 2015, 9:40:08 AM Banned Quote this Post