[HC] Imbalance between class and statistics ?

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Mannoth wrote:

Thing is, the defense mechanism are split for a reason, some are harder to stack and obtain than others, some are mutually exclusive even. I understand this can be frustrating as the right side of the tree literally screams evasion/dodge which do not play well with desync in the game.

However it is as it is, 2.0 will probably change a lot of how we build our defense and until then i dunno what else to tell you.

That's the main issue it's already hard enough to run shadow or ranger with cwdt set up on HC, now it's useless to pick them on HC.

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EzBreesy wrote:

I checked your profile and see you have only one char marauder and on standard how can you be more biased than this.

The characters listed in someone's profile give you an incomplete picture. They could have alt accounts or deleted characters. But even if that's not the case, the profile still doesn't mean much. In every game I've played there are people who are into dissecting the game and learning every detail about the mechanics. Those are not necessarily the same people who grind to the highest levels. There are also theory crafters who play a build long enough to prove it's viability, then move on to something else.

One of the best things a new player can do in a game is find out who knows that they are talking about, and are worth listening to. In POE it's pretty easy to figure that out. Ludvator is one of the people worth listening to. Is he always right? Of course not. But I can guarantee he knows a heck of a lot more about the game than you do.

I can guarantee you, your wrong and I could challenge him 10000$ to get a ranger self-found as high as he claim and he would fail 200 times.

Facts are here look at the ladder if he was so good at theorycrafting and knowing the game he woul've step up and throw some lvling build for ranger from his own and argue about it but he know that I'm right.

All his knowledge are some videos from ranger on standard who one shoted artziri with trap but he forget that they have 200 death on count and only 1 in hc remove you to standard.

He could be the one that developed the game and skill tree... would not mean he played to see if it actually works.


Still I agrea with you that profile doesn't mean much.

OP is out of control, lol!

Evasion builds were buffed. It's been a while now since they were. Ondar's is getting a nerf to compensate for how good evasion actually is, in the next major patch.

I haven't done a bow ranger in a couple leagues now, but they do fine in HC.

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EzBreesy wrote:

I can guarantee you, your wrong and I could challenge him 10000$ to get a ranger self-found as high as he claim

How high do I need to level a ranger in hardcore to get this $10,000?

I have a lvl85 bow ranger in hardcore completely solo and self found, do I win the money? :D


It was easy, bows are one of the easiest ways to play the game. Ive only died once in hardcore, and I only play hardcore self found. Ive deleted many hc characters, Ive filled many hc characters with items I want to take to standard and then ripped them on purpose, but actually dying in combat? No, I play to carefully for that, it happened once, I dont plan on it happening again.


As for evasion, well, I rarely play pure evasion characters. On its own evasion is a bit crap yeah. Armour? Armour is also a bit crap, both evasion and armour are flawed on their own. Evasion doesnt counter phys spells, armour doesnt counter elemental attacks, they both have big weaknesses there. I would rarely play a pure armour character either. I would probably sooner play a pure evasion than a pure armour, Ill say that much.

This here

"Hence evasion is useless without armor and if you try to get evasion+armor you won't have enough life anyway."


...I let out a sigh here, sort of, what you say is sort of true and sort of wrong. Evasion useless without armour? No thats not true, evasion has a significant weakness without some form of physical mitigation this is true, but it works, people use pure evasion in hardcore and survive.

Theres no reason why you cant use evasion + armour, there should be no problem getting enough life. This is how I build archers in hardcore, only swapping to pure evasion if I find a lightning coil. My bow char currently in hc was ar+ev until I found a coil and then changed to coil + ev + acrobatics. Thats not the only way to play, but being a very defensive minded player its how I play.

This is not broken, because armour is in the same situation. I would never build a pure armour char for melee, imo absolute death trap. People do it, and survive, and theyre happy enough. For me there has to be avoidance, not having evasion or very high block, I would certainly not do that in hardcore, or anywhere tbh. I would always build evasion + armour together, marauder, duelist, ranger, doesnt matter, ev+ar, and I wouldnt take the scion life wheel, and I would have 5000-6000+ life, I would do enough damage to comfortably beat anything and I would get to the mid 80s without dying basically every time. I dont see why I would do it any other way, but then theres far better players than me who do it differently, so ultimately thats just my take on the game.

Only time Id build pure ev or pure armour is if I was either a caster/ci who couldnt spec both properly, if I was using something like an aegis block build or if I was making a crap character. For example my mf ranger on standard is pure evasion, because andvarius resist penalty means I cant also use coil, and that character is crap, designed to be crap, I dont care if it dies its an mfer in a softcore league, the intention is that it is crap, very low life, a lot of damage to offset iir+iiq gems, gets lots of loot. Honestly it very rarely dies in maps, doesnt ever seem to happen against mobs in maps and I put that character in ridiculous maps, so evasion does work, its just not as grossly robust and completely overkill defense as I would demand from a serious character. She does die to some map bosses a lot, because - max gmp double boss 100% quant map turbo palace with a 3k life character in a lag infested boss fight is... yeah, shit happens.



chris was asked once about evasion not having mitigation, and he said they expect evasion characters to get physical mitigation from other sources. So there you go, layer armour or endurance or coil or taste of hate or whatever other source of physical mitigation you want. Armour is in same boat, its crap unless you find a way to stack some sort of avoidance on top. The idea that you always go pure armour or pure evasion I believe is one of the worst misconceptions to ever happen in this game and sadly it has stuck in popular belief forever now. People realise armour builds are infinitely better when you add lots of block, and evasion builds are infinitely better when you add a coil, the option to use armour + evasion is sitting there staring people in the face and still they dont wake up, the penny just never drops. Well, perhaps that is not exactly true, maybe more truthful to say that most people are happy with less defenses than I would demand from a character, and they do just fine with pure armour or pure evasion so theres no penny to drop. If you want more defense, if you think it is not enough like I do, then dont build that way, works for me.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

chris was asked once about evasion not having mitigation, and he said they expect evasion characters to get physical mitigation from other sources. So there you go, layer armour or

How can a shadow get armor nodes if not super high lvl, enlighten me please, hence taking armor he will skeep acrobatics we're ok ?

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EzBreesy wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

chris was asked once about evasion not having mitigation, and he said they expect evasion characters to get physical mitigation from other sources. So there you go, layer armour or

How can a shadow get armor nodes if not super high lvl, enlighten me please, hence taking armor he will skeep acrobatics we're ok ?

use arctic armour or granite flasks or endurance charges or lightning coil or taste of hate or cloak of flame or immortal call or be glass cannon, the shadow is after all the epitome of glass cannon. and yes you wouldnt take acrobatics if you chose to have armour. If you have evasion and then the choice of acro or armour personally I dont see a reason to take acro, its just more of the same as you pointed out yourself, more avoidance and doesnt deal with the actual weakness of your setup which is no mitigation.

High level, sure, but really you dont need to invest much in % defenses until high levels anyway. You cna just wear armour early/mid game + use a flask and then late merciless when you get to the duelist area or whatever you spec into armour + evasion hybrid nodes.

Or just stay pure evasion if you want, people make that work all the time. I woudlnt do it, but then I would rarely spec a shadow, I think all my shadows are either using coils, iron reflexes + AA or iron reflexes + Aegis + energy shield. Its not a build I would be drawn to in a self found hardcore environment unless I had specific gear I had already found with another character. My first choice would be some sort of hybrid armour + evasion attack ranger.