Why the "You need more health" paradigm is bad


"
Actually most people by end game figure out you don't need the "basic attack" button at all and can fit more skills on your skill bar by replacing it. I guess you still haven't figured that one out though.


Are you trying to be a smartass? You said LMB, lmb is only used by move only by people that are smart enough to change it.



"
All the builds except maybe for summoner and certain trap builds have you spamming 1 skill over and over and over and over again.


Thats what happens when GGG added the linking system with support gems, yes you can cast defensive buffs or offensive curses but a fully supported gem 1 skill gem and 5 supports is > 1 skill gem and 3 supports. Some changes are happening with this in 2.0 to enable some builds to utilize using multiple attacks to increase damage even further. Gems like bloodlust are affected by this change.

"
With no need to ever cast any other skills because you're stacking 4 auras and have a 6 link to your spammy skill/spell. That's not really diversity in gameplay. It just has a different name and effect but essentially plays the same. I've been playing this game a long time as well and I'm not afraid to call it out for what it is. Don't get me wrong, I like the game but I'd like to see it ACTUALLY improve. Not just tweak numbers.


The need to not cast other things is simply because until 2.0 there is no reason to cast anything different, point me to an ARPG you think is better at this then PoE, because i've yet to see one that is anywhere close to as good as PoE.


"
And that's the point of this whole post/thread is that it SHOULDN'T be asking for trouble. Did you honestly read any of this? This is why there is a suggestion part of the forum is because people want to see this changed. We don't want to have to be pigeon holed into life builds. We want other options for leveling and gameplay.


Yes lets purposely leave out the information that I posted with that, great idea. Misquote me again please. I said ES is asking for trouble because you can't get high es gear until high level maps, thats how GGG decided ES would be partly balanced for the late game. CI\ES builds are significantly better in beta, but the problem of I cant get enough ES for it to be more effective then life will still be there.

Spoiler
"
goetzjam wrote:

MoM is in the duelist tree because its literally on the opposite side of the tree from EB...



"
So what? Its used for casters and NEEDS to be near the caster or caster hybrid trees. The unique item is there so that you don't have to spend a point in the tree if you get lucky and get your hands on one. Making a specific unique a requirement for ALL energy shield build (Eldritch Battery builds) is ridiculous. Hence why we want to move away from life builds.


Its there because the live version of EB is a no brainier, grab those 2 together and you've got yourself easy caster defenses. The unqiue actually was the reason the keystone on the tree was added, that being said yes it does typically force most casters that want to go life based mom to just use it instead, theres not many options to make that any less powerful but MoM shouldn't be in the caster area, similar to vaal pact its much too powerful if you can get it without the "tax" travel path.

But EB is getting changed in beta so I am not 100% sure what you are trying to aruge about, MoM without EB is pretty mediocre.



"
I want exactly what I said: more active skills. If that requires making 6-links obsolete, then great. Remove them so that we can have more skill selection instead of just 'roiding up 1 skill which dominates everything. Its currently more mundane than Diablo 3's gameplay.


Except for the linking system is one of PoE's greatest designs, its downside of course is that a 4 link pretty much can never beat a 6 link in terms of damage, hence why that skill is used instead. Like I said this has some changes in beta. As far as more mudane then D3 you are vastly mistaken that game you can use every single spell off cooldown and it wouldn't matter theres pretty much 0 strategy to that its just "hey i've got more buttons to press"

"
Simply because there are so many ways to buff one particular skill and not enough way for skill gems to synergize through active buffs.


Do you have a suggestion or just complaints?

"
Combo skills would be great or at least things that synergized well with one another even for a solo player.


Like what, give example its hard to follow what you have in mind when you don't mention anything other then D3 does it better, but TBH it doesn't you are talking about PoE not having options in D3 your options pretty much are meaningless, you don't have to invest into linking, you don't have to invest into a passive tree (dont you dare say paragon levels) and if you don't like the way something works you can pretty much your skills or runes whenever you want for free.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
The problem is that you can stack health and defense without any sort of promise of safety. 13k EH in content you outlevel? Sorry mate, you just died to some random bursty bullshit.

Health stacking is fine, but having 200% hp should come with safety, not "having more health and being 10+levels above the zone should be ok I guess" as you wait for the RNG to line up and blow you up.
I think OP mistaken. HC is only league that pigeon holes player. Which he does not even play so im not sure why he brings it up. In SC you can play how ever you want cos death dont really matter anyway. Sure i may waste 5-6 78 maps for my lvl 94 character but thats no big deal compare to HC player who waste 100-400 hours.

I play glass
I play tank
I play balance

It's why I play SC. Diversity.


And no super tanky toons are topping ladder in SC anyway so you already have the competition you seek for glassy. Now get after it.
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on May 21, 2015, 2:26:46 AM
There actually are some builds out there with very little health, that should only be taken by really good players. I remember a player recently complaining about his inability to level because of the 10% penalty, yet he had taken such a build without understanding it fully.

Also, it's weird to think that you can possibly go 1 health. There are things that are much too hard to avoid for that, like Dominus' rain, or any reflect mechanism. How do you get past a Corrupt Blood, Elemental Reflection mob without taking any damage?

"
PolarisOrbit wrote:
Do people still make all health builds? In Softcore? I know I get a pretty good amount of damage. Guess I suck at paradigms.

A 100% health multiplier is pretty good, but even if they're all 5% nodes that's only 20 points out of your character. At high levels you get like 100 skill points, so that's only a small fraction of the build. Let's not make a mountain of the molehill.


Actually, there is a build that goes far beyond that for health. It's the Righteous Fire build. The build goes for maximal regeneration and health. You can check an example with my character Lorelania (which is almost immune to reflect, CB, fire and even desynch and lag, doesn't require to click on monsters, to take any dexterity for the character, or to spend mana, and can be left alone without fear of dying).
I've never taken that mentality seriously.

I think, more than anything else, health was/is being used as a desync buffer. I'm here to tell you now: with Lockstep, that isn't even remotely a consideration.

I'm running around with 2.8k health in maps and doing quite well, because I can whirling blades all over the damn place to avoid attacks... and it works. Every time.
A comprehensive, easy on the eyes loot filter:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1245785

Need a chill group exiles to hang with? Join us:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1251403
"
Antnee wrote:
I've never taken that mentality seriously.

I think, more than anything else, health was/is being used as a desync buffer. I'm here to tell you now: with Lockstep, that isn't even remotely a consideration.

I'm running around with 2.8k health in maps and doing quite well, because I can whirling blades all over the damn place to avoid attacks... and it works. Every time.


This is what I was hoping to hear/read. Thank you.

Ignore the other elitist scrubs in this thread that preach "everything is fine the way it is"... Because the current state of the game hasn't been for awhile. I don't have access to beta and most of the streamers suck at talking about the core issues with the game. They tend to just show off the fluff.

I am hoping that you are correct and that with the changes in the beta, more builds are viable for levelling and also end game. Spending several seasons running HP builds got hella boring. I have been waiting ages to run a FUN and ACTIVE dodge build the requires me to move around the map to stay alive. Not just count on RNG dodge and life leech while I spam LMB attack.

Have you found any rare/unique jewels which help your mobility?

*cross fingers for patch 2.0 now*
@nhemin

Did you ignore my lengthy reply for a reason?

Who is a streamer you think does a good job at addressing core issues?
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Life nodes should be removed just concentrate on getting
one type of defence ES, AR, EV + Dodge, Block.
Get all hp from leveling and gear. Leveling should give % inc life and flat then so life from gear wont be useless.
The three
scion circles
are life, EV
and ES makes no sense
The life wheel should be Armour
Why isnt it Armour? Armour propably sucks or % inc
would be useless.
So buff Armour. It should also increase your elemental resistance
and maybe chaos on its own so you need less ele res from gear.
Maybe also boost regen or decrease chance to receive a critical strike.
Decrease all incoming damage seems also reasonable.
However it should give ele res at a better rate than phys res.
#Revolution #HuntTheWitch
Last edited by MasterTBC2 on May 21, 2015, 3:03:25 PM
"
MasterTBC2 wrote:
Life nodes should be removed just concentrate on getting
one type of defence ES, AR, EV + Dodge, Block.
Get all hp from leveling and gear. Leveling should give % inc life and flat then so life from gear wont be useless.


Then GGG would have to focus on balancing the endgame for people that have life on every piece of gear, which completely defeats the purpose of what they've been doing on making life on gear less mandatory with the increased life gained per level. So anyone that chooses to use a unique item or multiple ones will suffer significantly with your purposed changes.

Life nodes are perfectly fine, this mentality that its stack all life or GTFO is wrong, you spend probably 1/4 of your points on life nodes, some damage nodes and the rest is pathing.

You want to remove the tradeoff people currently do for things like max block or builds that traverse a greater part of the tree, that isn't good design, the current get what life nodes are around what you pass is pretty good. If you are deing make sure you have capped resistances and other proper defenses, most of the time you aren't deing because your life is too low, its because you don't have capped res and are trying to tank hits you shouldn't be.

https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
"
goetzjam wrote:
"
MasterTBC2 wrote:
Life nodes should be removed just concentrate on getting
one type of defence ES, AR, EV + Dodge, Block.
Get all hp from leveling and gear. Leveling should give % inc life and flat then so life from gear wont be useless.


Then GGG would have to focus on balancing the endgame for people that have life on every piece of gear, which completely defeats the purpose of what they've been doing on making life on gear less mandatory with the increased life gained per level. So anyone that chooses to use a unique item or multiple ones will suffer significantly with your purposed changes.

Life nodes are perfectly fine, this mentality that its stack all life or GTFO is wrong, you spend probably 1/4 of your points on life nodes, some damage nodes and the rest is pathing.

You want to remove the tradeoff people currently do for things like max block or builds that traverse a greater part of the tree, that isn't good design, the current get what life nodes are around what you pass is pretty good. If you are deing make sure you have capped resistances and other proper defenses, most of the time you aren't deing because your life is too low, its because you don't have capped res and are trying to tank hits you shouldn't be.



How is needing life on gear any different from needing capped resses?

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info