Legacy items are bullshit

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Nurvus wrote:

Only the contradiction in your logic is obvious.

That which is sacrosanct remains implacable to the vicissitudes of logic.

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RogueMage wrote:

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Nurvus wrote:

Only the contradiction in your logic is obvious.

That which is sacrosanct remains implacable to the vicissitudes of logic.

Such a concept is a poor candidate for sanctity because, as I already explained in the OP, there are myriad other ways, all in use, to fuck your items over.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Nurvus wrote:

So GGG fuck the game up, they know that they do, and keep Legacy items "the truly balanced items?" in the game for SOME players to enjoy "balance"?
Those acids expired last week didn't they?

That's like saying the street is safe because it has good lighting and traffic control, but when asked if you're going to cross the street you go "fuck no, I'll die.".

I love obtuse analogies and I still don't follow.

He said Legacy are the remaining defense against GGG fucking our characters up.
Except - SURPRISE - GGG decided to have Legacy items in the first place.
So who are Legacy items defending us against anyway?

You're a prisoner.
Your jailor has a weapon to kill you with.
Yet he leaves a food tray in front of you.
OBVIOUSLY, "not eating the food" is your defense against death by poisoning... right? xD

If you consider that GGG changes to the game are aimed at "fucking our toons up", then why do you play and/or why do you think there is a defense against them?

Legacy items were created for ONE reason: GGG was afraid of losing certain fat whal... subscribers.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

...there are myriad other ways, all in use, to fuck your items over.

Only to a point, beyond which lies the abyss:

http://www.gog.com/games##sort=bestselling&page=1

@Nurvus: way too tinfoil for me, sorry.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. - Robert J. Hanlon

Legacy is fine. Make a infinitesimal difference in combat ability. ppl are just jelly they dont have it. I suggest don't worry about it because envy is a toxic emotion.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. - Robert J. Hanlon

This is what I'm taking away from this thread. Genius.

As for the topic at hand: I like my old legacy items, the few I've saved. I'd be quite upset if they were wiped (IIQ gem) or changed for the worse (Silverbranch for example). That I'm leveling bow chars with a +2 bow in Normal doesn't affect anyone in the slightest, now does it? Yet I like it very much and I'd be sad to let it go. It also happens to be the very first unique I found, so it has nostalgic value. Why am I telling you this though? Because this is exactly what I like about permanent leagues - that they are permanent. If GGG suddenly would change the rule set and make things..non-permanent, that wouldn't go down too well I think.

No, we have the temporary challenge leagues to level the playing field, and I think they are doing just that. Is that not enough?

I do however think that legacy items should be disabled in pvp. That is completely unfair and may well be one reason why so few pursue pvp.

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Ceri wrote:

If GGG suddenly would change the rule set and make things..non-permanent, that wouldn't go down too well I think.

coughcoughPassiveTreeandSkillscoughcough

No, seriously, you are ignoring reality. That's a weird assertion to make.

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RogueMage wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

All of this is true, but legacies are only a symptom: Standard is the core bullshit.

An ever-changing world (and passive trees and items and skills and enemies) doesn't mesh with the concept of a character lasting forever.

I'm pretty sure we all know why GGG isn't ever going to change this.

GGG's self-indulgence in mucking around with everything but Legacies is what makes them such an outrage. But once you accept their terms of engagement, a new challenge emerges:

What will it take to survive the next patch?

When a dev can casually eviscerate just about anything your character relies on, what defense do you have against that? Just one, it seems: Legacies, the sole untouchable, sacrosanct path to immortal exile. Against the impassive bedrock of Legacies, GGG has just one insidious tactic they can deploy: power creep. Remember when Kaom's Heart was insufferably OP? When every bow but Lionseye was garbage? When bloody headgear was de riguer for the hordes of shirtsleeve Duelists? All traces of that infamous reign are now buried beneath a mudslide of crit-encrusted dps, but the once-coveted vices remain procurable for those who still find them handsome. While they may never again be graced by the next ill-fated BOTW, they will sustain your faith through as many plagues of nerfs as you care to endure.

I'll admit it: I don't understand the Standard mentality.

Using legacies isn't a bulwark against GGG, it's a clawing desperation for the past. It's the fear of change and the fear of death and crying to the gods that life is unfair.

Similarly, nerfs and buffs from GGG aren't an attack against my characters, they're the creation of a new world for my new characters to live in. Old characters are completed stories; washed up; done. Why cry for the dead?

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GGG isn't in the business of making a permanent world. If they were, they would have stopped adding content a long time ago and balance would be a 4-letter word.

Personally, what I like about Legacy items are when meta shifts make them even stronger than they were at their peak. As a standard player, PoE is a giant toybox of rules and opportunities, with the everchanging metagame keeping the theorycrafting experience fresh.

The fact that some items exist in a state which is out of sync with the current ruleset of the game, adds another piece of depth to the landscape of the metagame. As game mechanics and the passive tree change, items might not necessarily grow in power, but the new possibility for unintended and game breaking consequences is nothing but a positive in my books.

That's my view on legacies. I also harbour a fairly negative view of people who complain about legacy items. I think it is missing the forest for the trees. If you are playing in parties in standard, you are likely used to playing with people who are totally crushing the game, as in, trivializing it's content to an insane degree. That has always been the case, but legacy items have almost nothing to do with it. Mirrored items are why people crush standard. It just happens that the same people who can afford those can afford legacies, but there is no legacy item in the game that comes close to providing the same level of advantage as mirrored gear. That 1 in 20 top end builds use a combination of mirrored gear and legacy items doesn't materially affect this situation.

That being the case, legacy items are something that make the people who own them happy. You don't need to understand it. You don't need to like it, but it is in poor taste for you to object to it. If you don't want them, they aren't any kind of impediment to your enjoying the game on your own terms. If you can't do that, legacy items aren't the problem.