Legacy items are bullshit

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AtomicNutzSlam wrote:

2.0 seems like a great time for a full reset. It's a new POE, after all.

Everytime someone suggests this I cringe just a little bit more. For the reasons I've stated a dozen times. You're forsaking the people that actually *enjoy* playing standard, like ME for your own benefit. A lot of people play standard, and enjoy it. Casual gamers more than others, because leagues are too short to casually hit level 100, or casually amass wealth. I consider myself pretty casual and I'm finally coming close to level 96. Yeah sure, been playing a couple years, finally getting close to 96, time to shitcan my character for no good reason.

Ghoulavenger, I understand what you are saying. However I think most of GGG's design decisions are made with the temporary leagues in mind and not the permanent ones. That is why I was suggesting that people there should learn to get shit on, because it isn't GGG's main focus.

You are also mistaken about legacies. They are not there as some token of good will for hard people's work on GGG's behalf. They are only there because it isn't feasible for them to change every single item when they make a numerical change to a mod. If they could have done so from the start, there would be no legacy items, trust me.

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Crackmonster wrote:

It's also too late to fuck up legacy items now, it would screw over too many people.

Expand that a little bit. Buying legacy items is just plain stupid, if you get "screwed over" because you got one, welp, tough luck. I see no reason to stop the removal of legacies because of that.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

Ghoulavenger, I understand what you are saying. However I think most of GGG's design decisions are made with the temporary leagues in mind and not the permanent ones. That is why I was suggesting that people there should learn to get shit on, because it isn't GGG's main focus.

You are also mistaken about legacies. They are not there as some token of good will for hard people's work on GGG's behalf. They are only there because it isn't feasible for them to change every single item when they make a numerical change to a mod. If they could have done so from the start, there would be no legacy items, trust me.

I'm aware of why GGG let legacies go. They believe that the downtime involved in changing legacies is not worthwhile. They believe the game needs as much uptime as possible. Not only that but changing the DB is dangerous and could potentially ruin and/or cause problems that they would not only not be able to fix easily but upset the players. But it would have been very easy to design around this problem, rather than let it become widespread. And worse, they continue to add to the legacy pile, and they're doing it on a massive level with the new expansion as expressed by their development manifesto.

The fact that they let this system thrive and proliferate rather than actually solve the problem speaks to GGG's dismissive stance on legacies -- which is why I say GGG endorses them, whether or not you want to believe that. It is also why there are threads like this, calling for their removal because of the "barriers" of entry to the "best" stuff, and how they are being "penalized" because someone has something better.

Funny enough, I actually have a solution to GGG's uptime problem. Wait for it... ...when the item loads and it's in the wrong bracket, reroll it. Bam, GGG should pay me for that suggestion. If I'm not mistaken items don't load until accounts load, same goes for account stashes. So really it would work quite simply when players logged in, and nobody would be any wiser for it. As a final touch to keep it from constantly verifying the same items, you just leave a version number on it. If the item matches the games version, loop on through. Minor overhead at worst during normal operation. It could considerably make boot ups slower after a major patch though.

The major concern with my "fix" is that if the affixes are changed that my solution wouldn't necessarily work. Rerolling within the affixes is known to be not only possible but safe (divine orbs), but divine orbs will never add or remove mods, which questions whether or not it is possible. Each individual item may have its own signature with the mods locked away from the games access. If it requires an administrator to change the affixes then the system can fall flat. Why would it be designed this way? I have *no* idea.

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Perq wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

It's also too late to fuck up legacy items now, it would screw over too many people.

Expand that a little bit. Buying legacy items is just plain stupid, if you get "screwed over" because you got one, welp, tough luck. I see no reason to stop the removal of legacies because of that.

In the same sense that you don't care about the players who would lose legacies, I see no reason to care that you want legacies removed. Your arguments are just as weak, if not weaker than his are.

I have to say that before the recent announcements, some prices were already very meh

Just one thing ppl keep forgetting about:

"Standard doesnt affect temporary leagues" - This is bullshit :) Anything that affects Standard economy also affects every temporary softcore and hardcore league.

How ?

[Removed by Support]

You earn alot of cash. Have no time to farm. Time is Money, Money is Time.

Enjoy a degenerated gameplay after Awakening :) (not like it's not going into sewege lately...)

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eragon1111 wrote:

Just one thing ppl keep forgetting about:

"Standard doesnt affect temporary leagues" - This is bullshit :) Anything that affects Standard economy also affects every temporary softcore and hardcore league.

How ?

[Removed by Support]

You earn alot of cash. Have no time to farm. Time is Money, Money is Time.

Enjoy a degenerated gameplay after Awakening :) (not like it's not going into sewege lately...)

Horse. Shit.

Even if standard/hc did not exist people would RMT.

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Pwnzors87 wrote:

I dont get why this discussion, if clearly both sides are right. Personally im also against lagacys, but im only a casual gamer, therfore my opinnion is obvious.
They should simply make 2 permanent leagues, the first one ""legacy"" as it is right now, and the second ""modern"" where existing items get changed as soon as they get nerved or buffed. Maybe even with ""tradetaxes"", sounds weird, but nobody could gain enough ""wealth"" to controll the market (d3 aktionhouse did it).
Let me quess, at least 50% would join the new league, pg levt alone, and it would put the ""why bother"" argument to a whole new level. Thats why it probaply wont happen.

I dont think its gonna happen not because GGG is afraid to splitting playerbase or the population is too small (according to Jonathan Rogers from last year article there is up to 5 million accounts) but there is no profit or economy interest for GGG to make another new leagues. But still if this idea is implemented it may calm both sides, legacy owner can keep their stuffs and the other sides who dont like it(or new player) can go to other league.

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Insomn1ac wrote:

I dont think its gonna happen not because GGG is afraid to splitting playerbase or the population is too small (according to Jonathan Rogers from last year article there is up to 5 million accounts) but there is no profit or economy interest for GGG to make another new leagues. But still if this idea is implemented it may calm both sides, legacy owner can keep their stuffs and the other sides who dont like it(or new player) can go to other league.

well, imho it could work that way, but as some others already pointed out, the legacy perm league would end up with like a couple hundred people that own everything anyways with the rest of the people quitting and moving on to another league. while that may solve the problem itself viewed by our side it would a) screw up a lot of heavy supporters that've been here since years ago (since they can only throw items at each others faces now - no one else left to buy that trash) and b) make maintainence for that perm. legacy league itself obsolete (not worth the penny for a couple of hundred players).

while i agree on the fact that it's actually pointless to discuss this topic anymore i might want to point out that ggg still was able to do a server side nerf to acuity where they nerfed the existing versions too (i don*t remember tho if that event caused troubles to the database or not .. too long ago :P)

imho - i wait for new temp leagues and will play only them. if we could get a new perm league i'd be fine too. standard and it's inflation is pretty much pointless to play anymore except to use it as a trash dump for testing new builds (aka "a beta for the not so lucky guys without a key")

The nerf to acuities is exactly like the nerf that is coming to life leech. They didn't actually change any items in the DB. That is why there are no legacies. They simply changed what each modifier was. Life leech received a flat 80% reduction and acuities modifier was changed to 60% rather than 100%.

A new permanent league would not solve the problems either. Assuming that GGG continues to implement legacies, the new permanent league would end up exactly like standard. The reason why temp leagues don't end up entirely like standard, is because they end. This is just a problem we have to live with.

I think that the new permanent league would have far fewer players than you give it credit for though. The reason people play in standard is because they like their gear, characters, and are generally casual players that like working to an objective. Starting all over again doesn't appeal to people like these. And with a competing temporary league introduced at the same time, I think the new permanent league would be the one without players.