Legacy items are bullshit

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Mirror gear is different from legacies. New players can save up and mirror them just like everyone else.

I am not sure about that, I am 100% sure you can't craft iiq/old crit multiplier/other legacy rare stuff, not sure what happens if you use a mirror on something that has legacy rolls. If you can confirm that it copies legacy mods, that would be kickass.

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Shieldbreaker wrote:

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Mirror gear is different from legacies. New players can save up and mirror them just like everyone else.

I am not sure about that, I am 100% sure you can't craft iiq/old crit multiplier/other legacy rare stuff, not sure what happens if you use a mirror on something that has legacy rolls. If you can confirm that it copies legacy mods, that would be kickass.

Of course you CAN "mirror" legacy mods.
So, as long as original ite is available for mirror service, new players dont have any disadvantage obtaining it. However, it's still an advantage for players, who keep mirror-worthy rares with legacy mods, as these items cant be "remade" from scratch (even with gazzilion eternals), thus those players have monopoly for it.

I will repeat myself once again. I think, that legacy gear with better stats (compared to non-legacy ones) creates unfair advantage for old players, who happen to keep that items at the moment they became legacy. Suddenly, currency worth of those items skyrockets, bringing unfair "profit".

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Yeah you can mirror rares with legacy mods. Legacy IIQ and crit multi rares are some of the most mirrored items.

That is nice, I thought I would be stuck with my mediocre iiq amulet forever. Or, even better, the legacy system will be fixed by the time I find a mirror :D

Standard is the trashbin where everything that matters eventually goes to die.
What i think GGG should do is put a big red warning that this is the league that is imbalanced and might affect your gameplay experience in a bad way,and that's all.
Standard was never meant to be the league to play on all the time,it's a place where characters from ladders end up and don't get wiped because someone might of actually achieved something during the actual leagues and would feel slightly upset.

tl;dr: put a warning on STD,it's the dumpster of characters from bygone eras,and apparently there are some who doesn't know it.

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Shieldbreaker wrote:

Second of all, someone new arrives to PoE, how are they the ones affected by change? The problem is the lack of change to legacy items.

That is jumping to conclusions, and ignoring a lot of what has transpired in this thread. To recap...

The problem, more specifically, is variance in change - that is, it changes for new players AND doesn't change for old ones (according to foreign, temporary league standards).

There are two main philosophies to solutions: changing items for old players, and no longer changing items for new players.

Of these two philosophies, the first, changing the old players' items, is the most anti- Standard in spirit. Standard should be about avoiding rerolls and reacquisition of items, not forcing these things on established characters.

This shouldn't be about balancing the old. It should be about buffing new players' drops back to their previously "OP" glory.

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DeviantLightning wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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DeviantLightning wrote:

You're talking about getting to level 100 in a permanent league.
Shifting goal posts. Also bad.

WTF?

What I replied to was about permanent leagues.

That the difference between 500 and 1000 life Kaom's in standard is irrelevant.

I gave an example of relevance and shot the ball directly between the goal posts that YOU set.

#shiftinggoalposts.


These boards are amazing.

Are you reading the same things I am?
goetzjam stated that level 100 is achievable without legacies in temporary leagues. That was the example you chose.
So why is it, with functionally infinite time, is this somehow specially unachievable in a permanent league?

He met your criteria. You moved the posts by saying those leagues are qualitatively different. That is not even remotely a valid objection.

This is gold.

Mate, read my original reply to you. I was careful to use the wording I did because I knew someone would jump in with 'derp, can get 100 without legacy Kaom's, derp'. Like, I would fucking know, lol, I've done it with AND without.

I can't even be arsed to explain, [Removed by Support]

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TheAnuhart wrote:

This is gold.

Mate, read my original reply to you. I was careful to use the wording I did because I knew someone would jump in with 'derp, can get 100 without legacy Kaom's, derp'. Like, I would fucking know, lol, I've done it with AND without.

I can't even be arsed to explain, [Removed by Support]

I went and did. I don't even think a lawyer can manage to be more arcane.

If you mean to say a legacy could academically break a build trying get 100 then that's a hopelessly pedantic point.

If you mean to say that the difference in legacies affect which type of maps/content players will run, well you're patently wrong.

What relevant point you are making, if any, clearly does escape me. But then again, you've never been particularly arsed to explain to begin with. You sort of just bold random prepositions without bothering to define what you mean and then proceed congratulate yourself.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Please let me know which legacies let people farm at 10x the speed of non-legacies. I feel like I'm missing out on something.

If it's 1.5x speed it's already too much.
If it doesn't make you farm faster, but makes it considerably easier to guarantee your survival, it's already too much.

There doesn't need to be a ridiculous difference.
If they are broken, fix or remove them.
If they're fine, leave them be.

The whole philosophy behind Legacy items is purely terrible design.

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Nurvus wrote:

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Please let me know which legacies let people farm at 10x the speed of non-legacies. I feel like I'm missing out on something.

If it's 1.5x speed it's already too much.
If it doesn't make you farm faster, but makes it considerably easier to guarantee your survival, it's already too much.

There doesn't need to be a ridiculous difference.
If they are broken, fix or remove them.
If they're fine, leave them be.

The whole philosophy behind Legacy items is purely terrible design.

Is it really that game breaking for people if there are no legacy items but the stats just get rerolled in line with current game balance? I mean GGG has been shifting the meta on character builds constantly since the game was in closed testing...... How would it be any different if they adjusted stats on legacy items?

If it breaks a build, how is that any different to any other time GGG broke a build with their rebalancing? So yeah I agree this does seem like terrible game design.

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pneuma wrote:

All of this is true, but legacies are only a symptom: Standard is the core bullshit.

An ever-changing world (and passive trees and items and skills and enemies) doesn't mesh with the concept of a character lasting forever.

I'm pretty sure we all know why GGG isn't ever going to change this.

This is a completely different story. Most standard/hardcore players don't play temp leagues because they do not enjoy playing the same few acts over and over again. [Removed by Support] This has nothing to do with legacy items!