Upcoming changes to Leech

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Last edited by Grindrix on Jun 28, 2015, 8:15:01 PM
I'm not in beta so what I say will be strictly on personal calculations based on the information\feedback so far.


Currently on live as a 2h Melee, I hit for an average of 6k physical with Heavy Strike and a non-quality life leech gem of 8% damage leeched. These give me 480 hp leech per hit. I have 5.5k HP life so my leech rate is 1100 HP/sec. Lets assume we play with Resolute Technique for simplicity's sake.

That means that I will leech my each hit in ~0.44 seconds. My attack time is 0.59 sec so basically every hit I make gives me the full leech before the next one hits. That's good and I have still a small room to improve my leech (till my leech time becomes at least equal with my attack time).

We only have 1 leech effect active each time, so if we are hitting too fast as 2h Melees we are increasing the inefficiency of leeching per hit. That is for me one of the most important flaws of the current mechanic on live.


In Awakening Beta, assumming that the stacking effect will work as intended after launch, what they are really nerfing is how fast we reach the same leech rate as now on live, against strong single targets.

Lets assume the same numbers as before with extra points invested in leech from the tree, but nothing from gear\support gems. Because its quite inefficient, skill wise, to invest in all leech nodes available between marauder\duelist, I will only assume reasonable investments.

We take the Hematophagy Circle + The Splitting Strikes Axe Circle above.In total from both circles we have : 1.4% of Damage as Leech , 100% leech rate & +4% to maximum leech rate. We add say 5.6% of Leech from Blood Rage (to keep numbers round) so in total our % of damage leeched is 7%.

Base leech is 2% of Total Life hp so with the 100% leech rate this goes up to 4%, and our max leech cap rate goes to 24%. Dividing 24%/4%=6. This number represents the maximum leech stacks we will be able to sustain on our single target since 24% is the maximum leech rate we can have. In other words we need to hit our target 6 times in order for us to reach the maximum Leech rate. If we attack with 3APS (attacks per second) this will happen after 2 seconds.

Now as before, we hit with 6k physical per hit. With 7% of damage Leeched that gives us 420HP Leeched per hit. Our total life is 5.5k , base leech is 4% so our leech rate per hit\leech stack is 220hp\sec. Our maximum leech rate is 24% of total life\sec = 1320 hp\sec.

As we concluded ealier we need 6 hits\attacks to reach maximum leech rate => 6 x 220 hp per hit\leech stack = 1320 hp\sec. So in effect after 2-3 seconds of a battle start with a single powerfull target, I will be actually leech better than I do now on live but I will be more vulnerable at the exact start of the battle ( in other words till we gradually build our leech stacks in 2-3 seconds.)

Lets close with an example that doesn't have any investement at all for leech in the tree. We only have a 6% leech from blood rage.

We hit with 6k physical and with 6% leech amount from BRage = 360 hp leeched per hit\leech stack.
Total Life is 5.5k , Base leech is 2% of total life = 110hp per hit\leech stack & max leech rate is 20% of total life = 1100 hp\sec

Dividing 20%/2% = 10 gives us the number of hits\leech stacks we need in order to reach the maximum leech rate. If we hit with 3APS this takes us ~3.3 seconds to reach max leech rate.

Each hit will leech us 110hp\sec so for 10 hits => 10 x 110 = 1100 hp\s which is the max leech rate in this case.

So still, even with no investment at all and using only BRage, I will still be able to leech as effectively as I do now, but only after the passing of a few seconds, depending on my attack speed. For a 2h Melee that doesn't need to be huge, anything above 2.5 APS will suffice.

If the above calculations are correct & assuming what the devs say will work as intented, then I must admit, I find the new leech in the least more efficient and "smarter" than the current leech on live, at least for 2h melee builds. The actual nerf against single strong targets is at the beginning of the battle, after a few seconds your leech will have reach it's max potential.

This also opens interesting possibilities for the aoe leech that previously wouldn't cross my mind. For example I now use LGoH on my sweep. With enough leech from blood rage I can actually remove the LgOH from sweep & Life Leech from Heavy strike , invest the 2 circles i mentioned earlier to take some better base leech and maximum leech rates, and already I have spared 2 gems slots from my 2 main damage skills. Ofcourse this is theoretical and I need to see it in practice but so far numbers say it can be done.

At a final note, in order of priority , I would place the 3 main leech stats in this order :

1) Max Leech Rate Cap (along with total life)
2) Increased Leech Rate
3) % Damage Leeched

I hope you found the above at least interesting, I apologize for the length, any observations\corrections are welcomed.






Last edited by TauNeosorium on Jun 21, 2015, 5:31:46 AM
I think regardless of where leech is headed and whether the changes have been effective at what GGG is intending, the whole subject is so convoluted that it needs a rethinking simply based on how difficult it is to understand.
Isn't this a big nerf to auxium?
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thepmrc wrote:
Changes seem either poorly implemented, poorly thought through, or a combination of both.

Leach is basically useless now for characters throughout leveling and still next to worthless for characters putting out very high physical damage. Leach rates do not seem to be stacking as you suggest they would. In general leach was simply nerfed into the ground, which is a poor choice imo.


+1
Well said.

Also GGG super buffed Ranged area: VP now free for Ranged and Acuity, when melee and self-caster have nothing.
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Well, since the expansion is coming July 10'ish, we can probably bet that no new changes will be done to these leech mechanics.

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Well, since the expansion is coming July 10'ish, we can probably bet that no new changes will be done to these leech mechanics.



Yes you right, and no balance for melee and selfcaster defense, survivability, Life leech, LL, passive skill tree and amount of points from Quest added nor balanced.

Nice BETA!
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Qarl wrote:
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vangrandson wrote:
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GGG_Neon wrote:


Vaal Pact will be adjusted to account for the new values of leech.


If that means nerfed and I know that it means nerfed than rip my beloved windripper char, reflect will take care of me. And my physical crit charcters only god knows how I will not oneshotmyself to the new higher reflect rares.


We are aiming to make it better. This likely means a buff.


I did a few calculations with my current 2-hander, which deals an average of around 5K physical damage per hit and has around 20% of physical damage leeched as life.

CURRENTLY :
original life leech : 20%
effective life leech : 8% (-60% from vaal pact)
life leeched per hit : 400 (5000*0.08)

WITH THE CHANGES :
original life leech : 4% (actually less than that because of the blood rage nerf, but let's just divide by 5 for the sake of simplicity)
effective life leech : 4% (no penalty from vaal pact)
life leeched per hit : 200 (5000*0.04)

So, that looks more to me like a serious -50% nerf to vaal pact.
Am i missing something somewhere ?
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yes, you miss multi hit give multiple leech effect ;)

before (with ur calcul) : 400 life per hit (no matter how many monsters )

now : 200 life per hit AND per monster hit (if 2 monsters, u gain 400 life...)


but, Leech et leech rate will be changed with next beta patch ;)
Oh, i thought it was already the case, a bit like life gain on hit.
Still, tanking is gonna be a bit more tough now.
Thanks for the clarification =]
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Last edited by xhul on Jun 23, 2015, 5:29:17 PM

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