Upcoming changes to Leech

"

_RebeL_ wrote:

"

perafelix wrote:

Dear GGG, we don't need the leech to be better for pack of monsters; they are normally just meat for getting xp and not a problem. Survival problems are always when you meet the bosses and now you are nerfing a mechanic which was very helpful against the toughest monsters of the game.
Definitely not a good change

Exactly. Would be better if they were more clear about what they are doing, instead of calling it 'changes'.

For those who still don't get it, ggg thinks killing palace dominus is a trivial task, because of some Op rich people build that can face tank it.
In fact, 99% of players have problems doing palace dominus, or just skip it altogether.

This is the more nonsense update in poe history.

I have personally never gotten to fight Atziri, much less Uber. So far I like a lot of the changes to leech, but I have doubts on how effective they will be at end game.

That said, I have been sad because one of my favourite playstyles I have not been able to play since Sacrifice of the Vaal. At least, not with any true effectiveness. I enjoyed playing a mediocre flicker strike build (CI/Ghost) until Sacrifice when VP got nerfed into the ground and I could not afford to buy the high currency items required to power it. With the changes to Blood Rage one of my main concerns will be achieving high enough life leech to accomplish enough leech to keep myself alive. (Especially considering the extra changes to EC etc) I enjoy coming up with new builds and try a lot of different (often stupid but crazy) builds, but I usually at some point in a league try to build a flicker, regardless of how unfeasible it might be for a casual player.

However, this is a BETA and there are a lot of tests that have to happen to balance everything. Sometimes what look like stupid ideas are good ideas, and what look like good ideas are stupid. The only way to know is by testing them, let GGG test their ideas, good or bad, and provide feedback by trying out your own good or bad ideas. You can prove that it's a bad idea only by coming up with the builds and running them showing what kind of performance they give.

Hard data speaks louder than QQ.

"

Claiohm1708 wrote:

Hard data speaks louder than QQ.

And what data are you talking about? I'm very specific and clear on my arguments of why this change is bad for the game. All I do as of late are high map runs, solo and in party, I see people getting rekt by bosses very often, let alone atziri. I don't see anyone face tanking palace dominus with life leech. To do that you need absurd dps of mjolner/coc/mirrored and/or Acuitys.

Try it yourself on the live servers right now, get life leech and try to face tank dominus/crema boss/atziri with 75% resists, and see the data for yourself. You gonna need a beast of a setup to do that. And its getting severely nerfed for what reason exactly? The game will be balanced based on Acuity/Mirrored gear/Mjolner from now on?

Or perhaps I'm missing something, and mostly everyone is walking over bosses left and right with just OpieOp life leech as of right now, the data is showing that people don't even use life pots anymore, because hey, just stack life leech and hold click on the boss and ur done.

But I doubt thats the case.

"

_RebeL_ wrote:

"

Claiohm1708 wrote:

Hard data speaks louder than QQ.

And what data are you talking about? I'm very specific and clear on my arguments of why this change is bad for the game. All I do as of late are high map runs, solo and in party, I see people getting rekt by bosses very often, let alone atziri. I don't see anyone face tanking palace dominus with life leech. To do that you need absurd dps of mjolner/coc/mirrored and/or Acuitys.

Rebel, I wasn't disagreeing with you, but hoping to point out to those who have just QQed in this thread or complained from speculation that from a developer point of view that people playing and giving samples of it being good or bad and giving feedback based on that EXPERIENCE is what they need, and the point of a beta.

I specifically pointed out that I have doubts about the leech at end game and that I have very little experience with true end game.

Making easy things (packs) easier and hard things (bosses) harder...
Doesn't sound like improving quality of life nor like balancing anything.

I find it extremely idiotic to have to skip bosses (which I personally do depending on build/map mods). And it's gonna be even more of an issue now.

The gap between trash and bosses is already absurd.
Doing vice versa (- leech on packs, + leech on bosses) would seem much more logical.

And please get rid of those f.... boss stuns via ELEMENTAL damage.
How come players only stun by phys dmg and bosses don't give a shit?

Hopefully, it goes live heavily rethought.

Well, I, for one, am grateful that I will be able to more easily kill those insanely difficult trash mobs, and the piss easy map bosses will now present a real challenge. This is a brilliant move. Might I suggest doubling all boss damage output, as well? And tripling for party play! Also, I highly recommend 50% of damage should penetrate shield block if you make the other changes.

Thanks GGG.

"

deAlmaz wrote:

Making easy things (packs) easier and hard things (bosses) harder...
Doesn't sound like improving quality of life nor like balancing anything.

I find it extremely idiotic to have to skip bosses (which I personally do depending on build/map mods). And it's gonna be even more of an issue now.

The gap between trash and bosses is already absurd.
Doing vice versa (- leech on packs, + leech on bosses) would seem much more logical.

And please get rid of those f.... boss stuns via ELEMENTAL damage.
How come players only stun by phys dmg and bosses don't give a shit?

Hopefully, it goes live heavily rethought.

Any damage type can stun. I stun fairly regularly with incinerate and I don't have any stun reduction mods. It all depends on the damage you do, not what type of damage you do. If you're interested in stunlocking as a build concept, then build for it, it doesn't matter whether you use physical or elemental damage.

Just reached Merciless Act 2 and with 3k life, a 150 pDPS weapon ( a dagger btw which can get 0% increased life leech rate on tree ), 1.3k tooltip Cyclone DPS ( 1H with shield, 27.5 cc ) and 7% life leech ( blood rage - sustained with 3.6% life regen ) its almost not enough leech to sustain Blood Magic Cyclone against a single target ( sometimes mobs as well ) not to mention any life recovery ...

I will report how it goes on.

However I am not 100% sure if its the life leech change, the bugged cyclone mechanic or lockstep / a combination of those, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZIx5Hfeg0U

it basically performs an ridiculous amount of attacks, uses the mana ( blood ), does the damage - but does not leech anything ( watch Willy Wonka's life bar ). I am sure this bugged mechanic happens all the time when using cyclone which leads to less leech than damage / attacks done everytime cyclone is used / its direction is changed ).

Assuming WillyWonka was leeching in that video he was draining far too much to be able to leech all of that back. There's a hardcap of leech on the live servers of 20%, I can't imagine that it's much higher than that on the beta, even with the leech changes allowing multiple hits to be more effective.

"

ghoulavenger wrote:

Assuming WillyWonka was leeching in that video he was draining far too much to be able to leech all of that back. There's a hardcap of leech on the live servers of 20%, I can't imagine that it's much higher than that on the beta, even with the leech changes allowing multiple hits to be more effective.

Yes, it is a bug - the bug makes cyclone drain more life / mana than it should all the time.

However - on live Cyclone was easily sustainable with life leech and this bug / broken mechanic. The new life leech rate is almost not enough to sustain it not to mention any "life leech" ( at least not with 1H + shield, especially a dagger which gets no increased life leech rate for whatever reason ).

Edit : I redid a 2H crit cycloner and with him life leech works right from the beginning, leeching back enough life to sustain blood magic cyclone early on ( with a low level blood magic ). So its just that 1H + shield does not do enough damage or it is the 20% increased life leech rate I got from the marauder tree with my 2H tree. Maybe 1H / dagger + shield is not supposed to work with blood magic cyclone anyways.

Yet I think an increased life leech rate for daggers would be nice and fair since any other melee weapon has access to at least one - might have been an oversight.

"

Dark_Chicken wrote:

man you don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about.

cyclone has it's AOE already nerfed, you want more nerf so there will be even less melee in 2.0? you want players to choose other melee skills which are shit (and probably still be shit after 2.0), then buff those skills to make them more appealing than cyclone.

you want to nerf something which is OP OVERALL, not a freaking subset... like TS, which is OP relative to everything pretty much, I agree. but cyclone is clearly not OP now vs bunch of range, spell skills. yea, compare it to dog shit like other melee skills cyclone is OP... what a bunch of nonsense.

I agree. cyclone on live right now, clearspeed wise, is complete and utter shit compared to tornado, split arrow, kinetic, power siphon, arc, any form of fire prolif, even stuff like pulse and ball lightning, so many spells.

So fire prolif has been dealt with, ok, but cyclone had its aoe reduced already which nerfs its clear speed... its already shit compared to range and they nerfed it? What the fuck are they doing? and why would they nerf it even further? They said they wanted people to play melee and for spells/ranged attacks to stop being so dominant, that means looking at melee vs spells/ranged attacks and trying to fix that balance, not looking at melee vs melee and nerfing everything thats even half as effective as a spell/ranged because its better than melee skills no one will ever use because theyre so bad theyre not even seen as a viable option.




Every mana leech melee skill imo is already fucked, grace + hatred 100% mana reserve, cant run them without lvl4 enlightens or spending a bunch of points they cant spare on reduced reserve nodes... so reave, cleave, dual strike, double strike, flicker... virtually every life based physical mana leech attack is now fucked in my eyes, I will never play those builds again outside of standard league where I have enlightens. If they nerf cyclone more its basically goodbye melee for me, and melee is my main thing I play melee more than anything else, and this is supposed to be the big melee patch. theyve already written off 90% of melee builds I would play in a league with the aura change so I guess why not, nerf cyclone again and lets just be done with the entire game, sounds great...

If anyone wants me Ill be in standard league for the rest of my time in poe with a lvl4 enlighten gem where attack builds worth playing still work.

"

AdFinitum wrote:

Yet I think an increased life leech rate for daggers would be nice and fair since any other melee weapon has access to at least one - might have been an oversight.

I feel like its on purpose, because daggers have way too many benefits already damage wise. With the changes being based around the duelist tree it goes some way towards making non crit sword, axe and mace builds more attractive compared to crit melee attacks in the shadow/templar zones that have way to much of a draw right now.