SFL league poll

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Druga1757 wrote:

Claiming sf is viable in current trade leagues is akin to saying HC is viable in SC leagues. It's a play style different enough that it warrants a different league. For instance, a SF player can't continue their Temp league character in Standard when they don't have access to league only uniques they might want to build around. Same goes for rolling in standard, they don't have access to those uniques. Temp trade leagues themselves offer a relatively short window for a self found player to realize an endgame build of their hoice (ie, not an gear independent build), much less alts.

Likewise, there is nothing wrong with playing self found and finding an upgrade after 2,000 hrs, or less. There is nothing wrong with having a SFL as well. There is nothing wrong with being able to realize one or more gear dependent endgame builds in a 4 month SF league.

sc excludes being hc. however, it doesnt exclude selffound, as theres NOTHING in there to make you trade (as there is dying in hc makes you sc. so dying in sc and playing as hc makes some people feel weirded out).
in case you didnt know, you can get access to league only uniques by using zana.
i also dont think that getting proper rare items is the problem. the problem rather lies in finding build enabling uniques
Can we make a sub-forum dedicated to self found discussion so threads like this one can go there and RIP?
I dont see any any key!
The core misconception here is that separation will somehow fix problems by itself. If you mean "we want our own ladder," okay, but for any other concern, the only logical motive to separate is to apply different rules, such as increased drop rates. And increasing drop rates for self-found comes with its own issues; it is not a magic fix at all.

I think a smart loot system would thoroughly trump any type of SFL in terms of providing actual relief.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
The core misconception here is that separation will somehow fix problems by itself. If you mean "we want our own ladder," okay, but for any other concern, the only logical motive to separate is to apply different rules, such as increased drop rates. And increasing drop rates for self-found comes with its own issues; it is not a magic fix at all.

I think a smart loot system would thoroughly trump any type of SFL in terms of providing actual relief.

a smart loot system cant and wont ever work in this game, no matter how you turn it.
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Boem wrote:
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Druga1757 wrote:

People value things for what it can sell in alternate leagues as well. Buying cheap in HC temp, ripping to Standard to sell. Prices and exchange rates also fluctuate when a temp league is near its end and standard prices start dictating.

Claiming sf is viable in current trade leagues is akin to saying HC is viable in SC leagues. It's a play style different enough that it warrants a different league. For instance, a SF player can't continue their Temp league character in Standard when they don't have access to league only uniques they might want to build around. Same goes for rolling in standard, they don't have access to those uniques. Temp trade leagues themselves offer a relatively short window for a self found player to realize an endgame build of their hoice (ie, not an gear independent build), much less alts.

Likewise, there is nothing wrong with playing self found and finding an upgrade after 2,000 hrs, or less. There is nothing wrong with having a SFL as well. There is nothing wrong with being able to realize one or more gear dependent endgame builds in a 4 month SF league.


I don't disagree with the first part, but that falls under the "assumptions of value" as a result those deals can either be good or bad.(like buying up league specific unique's, or future "potential" legacy's)

Also to be clear i don't participate in such meta-trading stuff, i know it most of the times and i can make a reasonable guess that has been accurate in 90% of the cases, but i can't be bothered with the exercise since my characters are usually already completed at that stage in a league.

The second paragraph holds an extremely weak argument though. League specific unique's as the sole base reason for why you might be disadvantaged for playing standard league SFL style?

I get the reasoning but it holds so little weight imo. If your building around such a unique, i don't think your playing SFL, since your putting your hopes/success of the build on a single lotto occurrence.

The chances of that happening are about as high as in standard league.

The last paragraph i fully disagree with.

1) if this is the case, ask yourself, why does an SFL not exist already.
2) the speed of completing builds dictates the replay-ability and the durability of that replay-ability and as such are a big concern for the balance team i imagine.

Kind of busy atm, so i might add more later.

Peace,

-Boem-

Why isnt' it implemented yet? Because GGG hasn't implemented it yet? Why hasn't an async trading system been implemented yet?

Self found will always take longer to realize a build than trading, even with smarter loot. So balance will never be upset simply because trade is the fastest and most efficient.

League specific uniques are just one reason, not the only one. As I said, realizing a gear dependent build self found in a trade temp league is extremely difficult, more-so when one can't no-life the game. A self found league brings parity to a trade league for a player to complete a gear dependent build playing with a self found play style.

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Druga1757 wrote:

Claiming sf is viable in current trade leagues is akin to saying HC is viable in SC leagues. It's a play style different enough that it warrants a different league. For instance, a SF player can't continue their Temp league character in Standard when they don't have access to league only uniques they might want to build around. Same goes for rolling in standard, they don't have access to those uniques. Temp trade leagues themselves offer a relatively short window for a self found player to realize an endgame build of their hoice (ie, not an gear independent build), much less alts.

Likewise, there is nothing wrong with playing self found and finding an upgrade after 2,000 hrs, or less. There is nothing wrong with having a SFL as well. There is nothing wrong with being able to realize one or more gear dependent endgame builds in a 4 month SF league.

sc excludes being hc. however, it doesnt exclude selffound, as theres NOTHING in there to make you trade (as there is dying in hc makes you sc. so dying in sc and playing as hc makes some people feel weirded out).
in case you didnt know, you can get access to league only uniques by using zana.
i also dont think that getting proper rare items is the problem. the problem rather lies in finding build enabling uniques


The currency to access the all Zana map mods require wealth that again is extremely difficult to obtain self-found. There's no exalt recipe after all.

Master crafting prices require trading - if you don't get an exalt from a drop, there's no way to buy those mods.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give moar Power Creep Pls

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Druga1757 wrote:
The currency to access the all Zana map mods require wealth that again is extremely difficult to obtain self-found. There's no exalt recipe after all.

Master crafting prices require trading - if you don't get an exalt from a drop, there's no way to buy those mods.

but they do drop, eventually. also, the only zana mod that costs an actual exalt is nemesis. and farming for leather belts probably takes longer than it takes for an exalt to drop.

for master crafting, again, only elreon costs pure exalts. and again, you can, with farming enough, get there eventually
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...get there eventually


Yeah, and a lot of people knows that you CAN go 4000 hours without seeing an exalt. The RNG is THAT vivid. Most of us don't, but some may.

I'm starting to get sick of some of the responses. "You choose to play SF, so suck it up and deal with the fucking game". YES, we have been sucking it up for years, But there IS small tweaks that can be done, giving some love to the SF play style - without doing anything to the trading play style. And when we know A LOT of SF players want some kind of tweak, what is the danger?

There's A LOT of tweaks that can be done, without touching drop rates or the trading play styles. Allow vendors to exchange higher currency, enabling master crafting?

This is just examples of tweaks that don't require a big team or many hours of programming. So the old "resources"-argument is out. So, again, why not give SF "some" love? It's not like it will be easier than trading, no matter what.
Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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Phrazz wrote:
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...get there eventually


Yeah, and a lot of people knows that you CAN go 4000 hours without seeing an exalt. The RNG is THAT vivid. Most of us don't, but some may.

I'm starting to get sick of some of the responses. "You choose to play SF, so suck it up and deal with the fucking game". YES, we have been sucking it up for years, But there IS small tweaks that can be done, giving some love to the SF play style - without doing anything to the trading play style. And when we know A LOT of SF players want some kind of tweak, what is the danger?

There's A LOT of tweaks that can be done, without touching drop rates or the trading play styles. Allow vendors to exchange higher currency, enabling master crafting?

This is just examples of tweaks that don't require a big team or many hours of programming. So the old "resources"-argument is out. So, again, why not give SF "some" love? It's not like it will be easier than trading, no matter what.

it sounds faaaaaaaar off to not find a single exalt in that timespan. ive approximately played half that time, and found 10+exalts (found my first a few 100 hours in im guessing), aswell as some really good items (almost mirror worthy, but not quite)
yes, its all rng blahblah, but isnt that the point of selffound (atleast partly)? you either get what you need or you dont?
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it sounds faaaaaaaar off to not find a single exalt in that timespan. ive approximately played half that time, and found 10+exalts (found my first a few 100 hours in im guessing), aswell as some really good items (almost mirror worthy, but not quite)
yes, its all rng blahblah, but isnt that the point of selffound (atleast partly)? you either get what you need or you dont?


I've played for about 2000 hours, and found three exalted orbs, one eternal. And I'm sure I'm not the most unlucky guy in here. I've found one one-handed weapon above 300 DPS. One Two-handed weapon above 400 DPS. I don't think I have found one single rare worth more than 2-3 exalted orbs. If I were to exchange my gear for currency, "all" my wealth would come from uniques (6-linked). And yes, I have A LOT of hours farming end game maps with 400/200 MF characters.

This isn't a rant. I'm OK with not finding exalteds/eternals. I'm OK with not finding T1 uniques. I'm totally OK with not finding BiS. I'm playing self found, I CHOOSE to let those things go. But in a game where rares are supposed to be the best items, it's sad that the gap between droppable and possible are so big. And of course, I'm talking out of experience, but I think 2000 hours is a pretty good base.

Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
Last edited by Phrazz on Jun 17, 2015, 10:28:39 AM
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Druga1757 wrote:
The currency to access the all Zana map mods require wealth that again is extremely difficult to obtain self-found. There's no exalt recipe after all.

Master crafting prices require trading - if you don't get an exalt from a drop, there's no way to buy those mods.

but they do drop, eventually. also, the only zana mod that costs an actual exalt is nemesis. and farming for leather belts probably takes longer than it takes for an exalt to drop.

for master crafting, again, only elreon costs pure exalts. and again, you can, with farming enough, get there eventually

Zana Nemesis is 1 ex, Torment is 2 ex, Bloodlines is 3 ex according to wiki (I don't have access to the game atm to verify it ingame).

Master meta-crafting mods vary from 2-5 ex, 2 eternals, 2-5 blessed. If one has equivalent, but not exact currency, they can't buy the mods. In a trade league, you can obviously trade your equivalent currency to get the exact currency you need to buy the mod. Or, you can pay someone a crafting fee to do the mod craft for you if you don't have the right master levels. Again, not possible when you play self-found.

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