Summoners in the CB:

oh yes you will, i didn't get to play one before the current wipe. but a bunch of my mates have and they are loving it.
Well I would love to hear more detail about agro management.
well if I_NO or Antnee are around they can probably comment a bit , both are near or well into end game
Some suggestions to improve "pure" summoners:

- Create a command to teleport minions back to you (or possibly make them run back to you if you are able to solve the AI to not get stuck) just like with convocation but w/o the healing.

- Flesh/bone offering should be possible to use w/o corpse (but having corpses increasing duration just like now)

- Add some uniques (belt/ring/amu) and/or mods (corrupt/crafting) which grants minion utility spells (flesh/bone offering etc)

- I do think that mobs should target the player, mobs should have intelligent behaviour (or actually some monster should be more clever than other). If you meet a summoner you don't target the minions but try to kill the summoner. But if one minion is hitting you very hard you might kill it first. But the monster should not just go right after you but takign other thigns into account like distance, if they are attacked by my minions or my minions attacking the boss etc.

- Have some way (like a jewel) to turn your +spectres into zombies (or the other way around) so you can specialize in one type without loosing the benefits of more minions.

- When you relog all minions you had when leaving should be there (it is very annoying to get disconnected and then you have to resummon again, especially spectres).

- Maybe having an item which you can store a specific spectre and then use that to create a corpse for resummon.
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Sverre wrote:

Now the only rough patch i have ever hit as a summoner when clearing content are specific bosses and spectre survivability. Certain bosses (and i don't just mean trio and atziri), with their constant elemental aoe, can kill most, if not all of your minions in seconds.



A lot of misinformation in this thread. I quoted Sverre because I feel it sums up Summoner at least for live (I just got beta, unfortunately nothing to add yet on that part).

I've played Summoners far more than any other build and like Sverre, the only issue I've ever had were specific map bosses which throw out constant AoE faster than you can replenish summons.

I think an easy fix to make Summoner life a lot more comfortable would be to change both RZ and SK to summon up to their max in one cast.

---It wouldn't be OP in terms of defense because you can already resummon at will. You can already spam out skeletons which are balanced by their low health, and zombies are limited by corpses. Against the aforementioned map bosses with AoE, it would help shorten that gap between "oh crap all my minions are dead" to "ok I'm back up at full efficiency". It is no different than another build getting crit by a heavy hit, backing off for a second and downing a potion, then getting back into the fight. It is just that currently when the Summoner needs to back off, it takes far longer than a second to recover, sometimes requiring leaving the actual fight.

---In terms of offense it wouldn't be OP either. For 99% of fights you will be at max zombies anyway. As for skeletons there is a bit of charge up time (either from manual cast or a totem), but it is generally agreed that skeletons aren't exactly a backbone of any high DPS build, so a bit of a buff wouldn't be a bad thing (shortening the time it takes to get to full skels, especially from fight to fight).

---It would help leveling feeling smoother for Summoners. They start to feel right at about level 40, but before then it is slow summon time + low minion health which results in sluggish play compared to just about any other build. Being able to get back up to full summonens quicker would bring it a bit more in line with any other build spamming their way through normal.

---I doubt this change would provoke much of a response from any other build. What I mean is another build isn't going to socket a RS or SK gem with zero links or passives and suddenly play as well as a Summoner. In other words, overall game balance wouldn't get hit by such a change.


On spectres: I wouldn't mind seeing some tweaks, but IMO I don't think they should be the backbone of a build. Sverre's post highlights the obvious issue with this. Currently a lot of Summoners are relying on evangelists to patch up wonky Summoner play, which is fine. I wouldn't care if that summon stayed just as effective. But Summoners need to stand on their own without relying on a specific enemy type. In other words spectres should enhance a build, not carry it.

On gems/sockets: IMO just fine. It is where summoner "balance" comes into play. Our power is determined almost completely by gem level and support links, so it works. I think it is a bit of a fallacy to want both end game viability compared to other classes with good gear and to do so with lower gem levels and less support gems. Your 6-link with q20 gems is that GG bow a Ranger is using. That Ranger needed to find/trade/buy that bow, so I don't see the issue with needing to do the same. Getting off-track, but I can also add that even 6-links aren't as difficult to get as other classes. I use a crap 6l staff, but it still works because I get the support links, the stats aren't that important.
Last edited by Ameluxen on May 2, 2015, 9:57:30 PM
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solwitch wrote:
I hate farming for specters instead when you catch them they should drop a gem to make that type permanent.


I agree with this. I wish we could "designate" a permanent specter summon. I use the Evangelists, or the machine gun titty bitches personally.
Originally Posted by battlebug on 12.02.2011:

can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.
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Eben_GGG wrote:
Hi all, please try to keep the discussion on-topic, thanks.


your welcome
"
Bermag wrote:
- Add some uniques (belt/ring/amu) and/or mods (corrupt/crafting) which grants minion utility spells (flesh/bone offering etc)

- Have some way (like a jewel) to turn your +spectres into zombies (or the other way around) so you can specialize in one type without loosing the benefits of more minions.


these two things are specifically important. i could easily see a ring that grants convocation and a power boost to your minions the closer you are to them, packaging both minion responsiveness and responsive defense for when you are targeted - if a monster bypasses your minions and goes for you instead, this unique ring would allow you to convoke your minions, making them aggro on the assaulting monster and getting a shit ton of extra dps to take it out quick.

"
Bermag wrote:
- When you relog all minions you had when leaving should be there (it is very annoying to get disconnected and then you have to resummon again, especially spectres).


would very much like, but i don't know how it would be able to be deployed without upgraded server tech.

"
Bermag wrote:
- Maybe having an item which you can store a specific spectre and then use that to create a corpse for resummon.


this is a crucial issue. a way i thought of it is if a spectre kills a monster, that monster drops a soul. only the summoner of the spectre that killed the monster can pick up the soul. go to any NPC, trade in both your gem and your soul, and you receive an equivalent level/quality/exp spectre gem with an imprinted soul. such gems would blank cast the type of monster that was imprinted, while you can still select cast on corpses to get specific types you want.
People in this thread seriously have 0 idea about anything summoner related.

No you dont need curses
No you dont need 6L spectres
no you dont need cast when damage taken (r u serious lol)
no you dont need generosity
no you dont need sketotems
no you dont need rejuv totem
no you dont need 50 thousand auras
no you dont need melee splash

I'm not sure what all of you are doing to make summoner builds fail so horribly, but it blows my mind. Im walking around with 57 hp and 3k es with no curses, no skele totems, 4l specters, no generosity, no EE and no CWDT and im trashing 75+ maps all day like nobody's business. I even play with some of the most retarted specters possible( lol gmp+pierce puncture cobras) and still manage to clear maps.

As a matter of fact its not uncommon for me to clear maps using only specters or only zombies, sometimes i opt out of some auras for animate gaurdian. Summoner is by far one of the most flexible classes because of how zombies scale and its crazy.

If youre summons are dying you need to just not play summoner because with basic defensive auras (grace,Purity,discipline) there is almost nothing aside from high damage aoe nuke spam ( im looking at u uber atziri) that could even hope to kill zombies and you can avoid that by microing with convocation and ark targeting

Zombie damage is also quite disgusting and I would even say on par with SRS without having to stand in one spot and cast. montys grasp+haste+vaal haste+flesh offering turn zombies into walking death machines, seriously. 75+ map bosses die in literal seconds its disgusting

Quite honestly the only thing that needs to be changed at all is skeletons, but even then there is someone here on the forums with a pure skele build soloing atziri ( i personally have soloed piety and dominus with only skeles).

People whining that specters are annoying or that leveling a summoner is painful need to get over themselves. Actually use your brains and think about it. If leveling a summoner was easy and if specters were accessible from anywhere what would be the drawback to playing them. Theyre already very safe, and far from gear dependent with decent clear speeds like jesus christ what more could you want?

There are plenty of other builds that have a hard time leveling *cough* BOWS *cough* this is not something exclusive to summoners, hence why certain "leveling builds" ie, searing bond flame blast, are so popular.
Last edited by boogboi on Jul 1, 2015, 4:39:08 AM
+1 boogboi , great post.
IGN TylordRampage

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