Please educate me, why does anyone consider PoE to be "hard"?

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

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Etesias wrote:

You're basically judging this game by its tutorial. Which takes some time, indeed.

You know something like 5% of all players or some other absurd number actually reach maps? Doesn't that mean maybe GGG should focus on making that 'tutorial' actually more engaging gameplay wise? Instead of being so easy? You need to learn to think outside your own scope of gameplay.

Wasn't it characters, and not players?

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Xavderion wrote:

It was so stupid and yet SO fun ... epic

It was amazing. Meaningful, specific grind (in specific area in the huge fucking world without instant teleports) with guaranteed results and it required group effort. That's what made MMOs the shit and that's what MMOs lack nowadays.

I'm finding the different perspectives I'm seeing expressed so far to be quite fascinating. Please keep it up. :)

Opinions seem to be based on whether one favors hardcore/softcore, multiplayer/singleplayer, or three-time-around-the-ride and it's over/the game only begins after three-times-around-the-ride.

I must say, as one who has played single-player arpg's for almost two decades now, that PoE is the very first game of the genre that has made me want to actually finish the ride three times. I've got toons sitting in Sacred 2 and Titan Quest that are only in their second "ride", and I've been playing them on and off for years without ever wanting to finish the "third ride" before moving on to a different game.

I think the PoE devs must be doing something really, really right, that they can keep so many hardcore players engaged in their game, while getting a casual player like me to spend FORTY DOLLARS for their game when I didn't have to spend a dime on it.

People that actually got a job have no time to grind all day long + they cant enjoy the game and trade at the same time to get rich enough to get 6link gear and stuff so they are not motivated by the reward of playing PoE.

Atleast what 99% of my friends are saying.

I have to agree though farming day by day without finding anything good is more frustrating then anything.

The people I convinced to play PoE usually said the game was ok until they reached end game.

D3 win win for casuals PoE win win for ppl without a life :)

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prilletime wrote:

People that actually got a job have no time to grind all day long + they cant enjoy the game and trade at the same time to get rich enough to get 6link gear and stuff so they are not motivated by the reward of playing PoE.

Atleast what 99% of my friends are saying.

I have to agree though farming day by day without finding anything good is more frustrating then anything.

D3 win win for casuals PoE win win for ppl without a life :)

Wrong.

Farming in PoE always takes you a notch closer to the gear piece or whatever it is you desire. You can reliably farm orbs and it's not RNG dependant. After farming a day you're never left with nothing.

In D3 it's the exact opposite. You're completely depending on RNG to find that Ancient Furnace you need to advance to next level of GR. Then when you find one, you also need to roll it well. Ops, more RNG.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

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Etesias wrote:

You're basically judging this game by its tutorial. Which takes some time, indeed.

You know something like 5% of all players or some other absurd number actually reach maps? Doesn't that mean maybe GGG should focus on making that 'tutorial' actually more engaging gameplay wise? Instead of being so easy? You need to learn to think outside your own scope of gameplay.

This is just a good argument for making maps available at lower levels.

However, try asking: How many players of PoE actually play the game as an ongoing hobby, as opposed to something they just pick up, play for a while, then move on?

Back in the day, Diablo was pretty much it for the genre. You could play some Quake II instead, for example, but the overall range of available games was pretty slim, compared to today. Now, between the attention deficit disorder endemic in modern culture, and the vast array of available amusements, it's a lot harder for a game, even one like PoE, to sustain player interest. Those of us who play PoE all the time are almost certainly anomalies. For a player to play PoE, then replay the content a couple more times, in order to reach maps, probably takes more than a lotta players care to devote to one game. They might come back for an occasional dip into the game, but I'm pretty sure dedicated players, especially those deeply invested in the game, aren't typical. ='[.]'=

@Grughal ok so now orbs isnt about RNG? bet you find a mirror of kalandra each day with that can do attitude.

I was just trying to explain why some people find the game "hard" but what they really think about the game is that it's not rewarding enough...

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

You know something like 5% of all players or some other absurd number actually reach maps?

That's absurd. Yeah they definitively should work on the earlier-game.

I think while Todarius doesn't quite understand PoE as well as many people here do, that it's a game that builds up towards its endgame for instance (it's 'difficult' there, most people would be hard pressed to find it difficult because it doesn't really get there until it is). It's by no means arrogance. He looks to be of a different background.

The biggest reason I consider the game hard is because you hit barriers you have to get across eventually if you want to make level progression in decent time. And somehow in pushing those boundaries you often find this balance where you either have to make up a new build (lack of respec/item buying resources usually). Mostly because you don't fully have it planned out and know the tradeoffs I think. That is if you do your build yourself, using other builds changes this into frustration as I've experienced at times.

I see people blame gear being rare and expensive. This is probably because for most of my builds I either lack damage or survivability in rather drastic ways and looking at poe.trade you see items that would easily double or more your damage/survivability. Usually very expensive. It's the most obvious solution to your problem. And it's easy to assume it's the most effective. But perhaps gear is what really limits you and not passive point placement. Which may be the case beyond my scope of having reached 80, on standard. So far I've yet to "borrow" currency from other runs other than for low-level gear convenience.

What they could do about the earlygame though. I don't really know. The entire game felt like natural progression so far. And I'm clearly at maps so I'm the 5% or whatever. Not in hardcore yet but still. I'm not familiar with ARPG communities but maybe it's the attitude towards standard people which is pressuring them to keep going back to hardcore and get pissed at the game. Which I can easily see transitions into quitting eventually. It just gets more frustrating for some people, and it's easy to get attached to a character and feel bad when you 'lose' it.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

Yeah. It's a bit of a misleading statistic, given that includes race made chars, name holders, etc.

But still, there is definitely a silent majority out there who either don't get to Maps or just don't see them as anywhere near as important as the vocal section of the community.

Ha! that makes sense now, hell when I think about it... 5% of my own "characters" probably make it to maps :P

The game is exponentially harder as long as you continue trying to improve yourself. It starts easy.