Reflect damage, ondars guile with crits help pls

Couldn't find the info on the wiki or googling.

So after dying to an off screen reflect rare in a 6 man domination party I decided to calculate how much reflect damage I take, and if going vaal pact will save me. Solo I take unnoticable amount of damage and kill the pack very quickly so it's safe, but with 6 man hp and who knows how many mobs spawn around a shrine apparently not. Btw using gmp+chain+KB so this is for the reflect of many small hits, so averaging for all the rng is reasonable.


reflect rares deal 14% physical damage back
Acrobatics=40% less damage
evasion with ondars:

accuracy:1406
evasion:9755

From wiki:
chance to evade=(1-acc/(acc+(eva/4)^0.8))x2
=0.5343

then, can evade crit damage (and take normal damage) so assuming I crit, the damage reduction can be calculated
crit multi=458%

0.5343 are non crits, 0.4657 crits

damage reduction from a reflected crit is (0.4657x458+0.5343x100)/458=266.72/458=0.5823

lightning coil with 80% resist
0.6+0.4x0.2=0.68

all together reflected crit is

14%x0.5343x0.5823x0.68=2.96%

with a 6% life leech ammy and 2% from leech, vaal pact gives me 3.2% instant leech, so I should be safe right?

You don't have to put any kind of damage avoidance in the equation, just the damage reduction of the LC, armor and endu charges, if any.

max crit damage value
LC reduction + armor
finally calculate a sufficient HP pool

The problem is it'll be calculated in the case of a single reflect monster. But aura typically affects a crowd.
If you hit more than one monster, it's calculated for each separately.
Evasion also grants chance to avoid crits, it can't be put in the equation, as it's random.


Vaal pact doesn't help in case of reflect oneshots, as damage taken is calculated first, leech is second.

Better adjust your damage by empirical methods. It's safer.

I have no armour or endu charges, single mob reflect is not an issue it's hitting many mobs many times (using gmp chain kb) for small bit of damage, reflect damage can be evaded and dodged so I'm calculating an average.

damage is calculated first, leech second for every individual mob, so each mob reflects say 100 damage on average, i would leech ~130 per mobs, gaining 30 hp per mob

You don't have to. You need your max damage (for safety), or average one (risky), minus the damage reduction (not avoidance), to adjust either HP pool, or damage itself.

Because in theory you can still die with 99% block, 99% evasion, 99% dodge.

So it's better to adjust damage empirically, as it typically slowly progresses and is easy to work around. When you are up to a point things get hairy, just stop.

"

torturo wrote:

You don't have to. You need your max damage (for safety), or average one (risky), minus the damage reduction (not avoidance), to adjust either HP pool, or damage itself.

Because in theory you can still die with 99% block, 99% evasion, 99% dodge.

So it's better to adjust damage empirically, as it typically slowly progresses and is easy to work around. When you are up to a point things get hairy, just stop.

The dude isn't one-shotting himself to a single hit on a single monster, he's "lownumber"-shotting himself to a pack. He'd need 20k physical damage _per hit_ to be literally 1-shotting himself if he has as low as, say, 2.8k hp. There's no way he has that much damage on a single crit. Thus, vaal pact should help, because leech healing then reflect damage happens separately for every single hit on every single monster (even for spells that literally hit multiple targets at the exact same instant like Flameblast).

On the other hand, your evasion is incredibly low. Get more of that.

I don't think the Ondars Guile rolls for crit/not crit on the reflect because the reflect is just based on damage taken and doesn't crit you (you don't crit yourself and take status ailments on reflect). So I think it's just the chance to evade roll.

But if you're trying to figure out how much reflect damage you can take, you shouldn't count evade or dodge in the equation, since that doesn't really help you when all the rolls fail.

Edit: inserted a word I noticed was missing

"

mark1030 wrote:

I don't think the Ondars Guile rolls for crit/not crit on the reflect the reflect is just based on damage taken and doesn't crit you (you don't crit yourself and take status ailments on reflect). So I think it's just the chance to evade roll.

Is there a source for this? Status ailments are irrelevant since non crit reflect (e.g. flame blast) doesn't ignite you with %chance to ignite, so whether crits give you status ailments doesn't make a difference.

I've read somewhere in the context of a tornado shot build that crits can be "evaded" so you take regular damage instead but that was a while ago and can't seem to find any more info. If anyone has a reliable source like a GGG post that would be great.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

Crits can be evaded, but Reflect can't Crit. Simple as that.

Okay that clears it up, thanks.