jewels discussion: bringing RNG and Economy to the Passive Tree

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Splift wrote:

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miljan wrote:

D2 is not balanced around trading, as you can get the high top end items just from farming bosses for few hours

Sorry you are just plain wrong.

In d2 you could easily go a very long time without seeing any uniques, the drop rate is similar.

anyone who even remotely touches end game, trades in d2.

Just look at all the trading sites for d2, argueing that trade is a fringe minority thing in d2 just shows you know nothing about it or are wearing huge rose colored glasses.

Hah, on average, you will get the same number of uniques in one act, compared to PoE that you would get for the whole one difficulty. So no, its not same not even little.

D2 doesnt have end game, it has boss runs.

Yes it is minority compared to how many people played the game. Hack the game had so many bots and dupes that people didnt give crap about it, or the economy as there was none.

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miljan wrote:

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Splift wrote:

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miljan wrote:

D2 is not balanced around trading, as you can get the high top end items just from farming bosses for few hours

Sorry you are just plain wrong.

In d2 you could easily go a very long time without seeing any uniques, the drop rate is similar.

anyone who even remotely touches end game, trades in d2.

Just look at all the trading sites for d2, argueing that trade is a fringe minority thing in d2 just shows you know nothing about it or are wearing huge rose colored glasses.

Hah, on average, you will get the same number of uniques in one act, compared to PoE that you would get for the whole one difficulty. So no, its not same not even little.

D2 doesnt have end game, it has boss runs.

Yes it is minority compared to how many people played the game. Hack the game had so many bots and dupes that people didnt give crap about it, or the economy as there was none.

Once again ill say your memory fails you. In poe you can easily go thru whole difficulties without finding uniques and d2 is the same.

In poe you can easily find things like fusing and chaos orbs right in act one. Best ull get in d2 at that point are chipped gems and those are valued like transmute orbs.

Anyways saying PoE is bad because of trade and hard to get items and then saying d2 is tuned great for said aspects is fucking ridiculous, they are tuned similar in that regard. PoE was literally modeled after D2 in those aspects.

Lol miljan I suggest you go play D2 again, your memory of it seems to be quite bad.

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Splift wrote:

Once again ill say your memory fails you. In poe you can easily go thru whole difficulties without finding uniques and d2 is the same.

In poe you can easily find things like fusing and chaos orbs right in act one. Best ull get in d2 at that point are chipped gems and those are valued like transmute orbs.

Anyways saying PoE is bad because of trade and hard to get items and then saying d2 is tuned great for said aspects is fucking ridiculous, they are tuned similar in that regard. PoE was literally modeled after D2 in those aspects.

Noo, I played the game last month, so memory serves me very good. Yea you can find chaos orb and do shit with them, and fusing? Lol another limitation of economy so you can use your skill. In d2 you dont even need that crap as you can make you build without the need of fusing sockets item, colors and shit like that.

PoE was modeled from d2? Are you fucking joking? Do you even know what you are saying. No POE was models from ground up, for every aspect of the game, from skill to now passive tree around economy. With d2 that was never the case. Hack, your gold was useless in that game, as the devs didnt make, nor balance the game around economy. Not even gonna go on character customization and how it was not limited by economy as you had skill trees.

In d2 there was builds you can do self found, just like poe.

In d2 there was builds you could NEVER do self found, like enigma hammerdin, just like poe.

In d2 you could easily MF with 750 mf hell meph for a whole day like its a full time job and not find anything that day, just like dom runs in poe.

Even if d2 may have had slightly higher unique drop rates, who cares? most of them are trash, just like poe. At least in poe currency is easy to find, good luck with HR and SoJ's in d2.

Trading and economy are huge in d2 just like poe.

many items in d2 are so rare you could farm till the sun explodes and not find them just like poe.

I like this change.

Makes the endgame builds even more powerful.

And separates the good and OP builds even further.

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Splift wrote:

In d2 there was builds you can do self found, just like poe.

In d2 there was builds you could NEVER do self found, like enigma hammerdin, just like poe.

In d2 you could easily MF with 750 mf hell meph for a whole day like its a full time job and not find anything that day, just like dom runs in poe.

Even if d2 may have had slightly higher unique drop rates, who cares? most of them are trash, just like poe. At least in poe currency is easy to find, good luck with HR and SoJ's in d2.

Trading and economy are huge in d2 just like poe.

many items in d2 are so rare you could farm till the sun explodes and not find them just like poe.

+1

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Splift wrote:

In d2 there was builds you can do self found, just like poe.

In d2 there was builds you could NEVER do self found, like hammerdin, just like poe.

In d2 you could easily MF with 750 mf hell meph for a whole day like its a full time job and not find anything that day, just like dom runs in poe.

Even if d2 may have had slightly higher unique drop rates, who cares? most of them are trash, just like poe. At least in poe currency is easy to find, good luck with HR and SoJ's in d2.

Wtf dude, you are taking extreme examples of what can happen theoretically in both games, and because of it the game are same? Hahah, good one. You know what you can farm torchlight 2 last boss for one day and not get anything good. So that means the game are same, lol, such a wrong way of thinking and comparing games.

At least you are slowly getting there that the d2 has better drop rates.

I think most d2 players would agree that my examples are not extreme or unusual.

Here is another.

Going thru the game in poe will get you enough currency to buy some starter items even if you dont find an ex or anything (just alterations etc).

In d2 you only have one solid chance at getting a good item until you start mfing or leeching runs and that is hellforge. odds are against you finding anything good in hellforge and if you do find something good it is literally the lowest HR's you can get.

Another thing is in d2 its mf or gtfo. the idea of building wealth without stacking mf is ridiculous.

In poe you can just play naturally and do just fine. Kill regular mobs or bosses it all works.

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Splift wrote:

I think most d2 players would agree that my examples are not extreme or unusual.

The fact, that you use extreme example to make a point says a lot about it.
You can just look at poe and every aspect of it, from skill gems, to currency sink, itemization and similar crap and see how that compared to d2, that if you didnt know didnt even have runes until later with expansion ,are night and day in progression, drop rates and everything around it. Do you know why? Because blizzard north devs know what is important for a good arpg game, and they know limiting the game mechanic so you can try to balance the game around trading is a bad thing (and economy doesn't work anyway in this game).

I mean saying PoE a game where devs think the economy is the most important part of the game, and is build from ground up is same as d2 (that didnt have a economy to begin with, until part of community made it) is extremely naive and wrong.