jewels discussion: bringing RNG and Economy to the Passive Tree

let me start by saying, I like the concept of items which enable you to dynamically change your build. it sounds extremely fun and augments what already is my favorite part about Path Of Exile.

but... that's also the reason I have such mixed feelings about this feature's announcement.
the Passive Tree was always static, and - far more importantly - completely up to the player.
you determine what your character plays like, on the most basic level.
if there ever was a "safe haven" from the game's seemingly endless RNG-layering and trade-centered design, it was right here, in the game's crown jewel (pun not intended) of features.
in pretty much the only place where being self-found or trading, lucky or not, "rich" or otherwise - didn't really matter.

well I feel it won't be a "safe haven" anymore, and that makes me very sad.

can one still build a static tree, after Jewels are introduced? sure. but besides the obvious need to do so, while limiting yourself to paths which contain no jewel slots - that also means I won't be able to use a concept I'm very excited to see in the game (see beginning of post).

and while I hardly give a damn about the "competitive" aspect of the game, some people do. for those people, using (and trading for) Jewels will mean advantage over those who don't.
look at the Jewels. especially the unique ones. it's pretty obvious even at this point, a dynamic build with the "right" jewels, will be more efficient than a static one, while at the same time have the advantage of changing in a hearbeat to fit a given situation.

it's a whole new level of RNG dominance, really.
and from a solo/self-found perspective, it feels like Wall Street just invaded your remote village, and set-up a marketplace right in the middle of it.

It makes sense though, every other part of the game is based on RNG and economy, so why not the passive tree?

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Xavderion wrote:

It makes sense though, every other part of the game is based on RNG and economy, so why not the passive tree?

because the Passive Tree itself, and the fact it's not based on RNG and Economy, is in my opinion the absolute best thing this game ever had.

While I agree that jewels introduce trade mechanics into the skill tree, it is too soon to tell how that will affect the difference between a rich guy's skill tree and a normal player's. We don't know how powerful the rare jewels will be, how hard they'll be to roll, or how often they'll drop. They could end up like flasks where odds are you eventually get the mods you need and don't have to worry about it costing a fortune to do so.

Some of them will be build enabling and I expect trade will be required to get those but it's no different from regular uniques that demands specific trees (mjolner for example).

Being a build thing, I believe most jewels will be easily available. And the rare ones have four mods, so it seems in the real of possibility to craft them (for once!).

If the unique ones are not overpowered, it should be possible to get them with time, although that's more a concern I could agree with.

Wouldn't it only be a real issue if jewels had rolls as hard to get as Emperor's of Tyrannical? Otherwise, it's kinda just an issue of "when" rather than "if". I mean, it still represents a certain amount of currency that you'll also have to invest in the tree, but it won't be a problem it there's no "T1" rolls. Something similar to rolling Strongboxes, for example (I know the Unique item and fully linked rolls are hard to get).

But yeah, it would somewhat add another layer of RNG. I'm not against it, tbh

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johnKeys wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

It makes sense though, every other part of the game is based on RNG and economy, so why not the passive tree?

because the Passive Tree itself, and the fact it's not based on RNG and Economy, is in my opinion the absolute best thing this game ever had.

I like the tree because of its complexity and because it gives us the ability to build very diverse characters. Jewels make the tree even more complex and give us even more options. I never thought of the tree as an RNG-free haven or something because the tree alone doesn't make a character so there is no way I could 'escape' RNG anyway.

I like it from a solo self found perspective. The fun for me is figuring out how to get by with what the game gives me. It combines gear decisions with passive tree decisions. The more complexity the better so long as the game doesn't get easy.

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Xavderion wrote:

there is no way I could 'escape' RNG anyway.

very true, but there are steps to a character. for example Tree, then Gems, then Gear (your order might be different, and depend on a specific character).

Gear is basically full-RNG/trade. there's some degree of control with Masters and whatnot, but it's where RNG set up its throne and base of operations, and where the biggest shopping center in the entire realm, is located.

Gems are half-RNG, because you can get many of them as quest rewards.
most, however, are RNG. especially if you want the drop-only Supports or Quality versions. even the famous 20-Quality recipe which is all "player-deserved" (leveling a gem to L20), requires Gemcutter Prisms. which are Orbs. which are "gear" (see above).
not to mention linking gems is "gear".

the Tree is - so far - "pure" in this regard. a place where no amount of dice can "stop you" from doing what you want to do, and only a slight amount of Economic-dependance is needed to change decisions and correct mistakes (because quests also give Re-Spec Points).

so yeah 2/3 (or 1.5/3) RNG, when painting your character's portrait, isn't 2.5-3/3 RNG.
and I for one love to have as much control as possible, over my characters.
which is why I love the scary-at-first-then-fkn-awesome-when-you-get-the-hang-of-it Passive Tree so much.

@Vesuvius and @NeroNoah,
while I agree it is too early to tell just how much RNG-dominance and trade-dependence will be brought into the tree with Jewels - it will definitely not be equal to 0.
and judging by the way GGG designed their "rollables" and Uniques thus far, I must say it looks very encouraging for the trade-tycoons, and exactly the opposite for people who want a degree of control with no "strings attached", like myself.

@GooberM,
somehow I have a feeling there will be a "Tyrannical", as well as a "Singularity box". and worst of all, there will be a "Unique Strongbox". which unlike the above two, I never, ever saw in-game.
maybe even a "Mirror".

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johnKeys wrote:

@GooberM,
somehow I have a feeling there will be a "Tyrannical", as well as a "Singularity box". and worst of all, there will be a "Unique Strongbox". which unlike the above two, I never, ever saw in-game.

There might be, but like I said, it'll only be a problem if it's the case. Otherwise, it'll be quite easy to roll

Are Unique strongboxes found? I thought they were only Orb of Chance-able