Nerf, buff, crit and all that goes with.

After giving this topic some thought I've come to some conclusions.

1. When balancing things, I'm glad GGG are at the helm, and that they don't take everyone's ill advice.

2. It's my perception, that when guys want things nerfed, they are looking at players with mirrored or OP gear. For the casual player, just having a skill that is very good/op makes them able to play end game content. Which is where everyone is ultimately heading.

3. It seems like there are a lot of jealous players out there, that when someone is successful with a build/gear they've made, they cry nerf. Why not try the build yourself and improve on it rather than crying for the nerf hammer.

4. Guys with mirror items, I take my hat off to them, as I've been trying to craft "mirror-able" items and wow its not easy and costs tons of currency. So good luck to them and their items they've crafted. That said there is a lot of awesome gear out there, which is very good, even though its not "mirror-able"

5. I tend to like the way GGG are nerfing skills now. Why wait for league ports and/or huge patches to come out, when they can balance and nerf/buff a single item with the small patches introduced during the leagues. This way I feel one has the chance to build around the nerf/buff of the skill, and don't necessarily have to recreate a whole new build. What they did with flameblast was coming all along, even though it hit racing in the chops. For one I would prefer this way of balancing the game.

6. Yes crit and fire proliferation needs to be looked at, but one needs to be careful as many builds could be broken. Take for instance a firetrap, mine or totem build which counts heavy on these things. Nerfing proliferation or crit would cause these build to disappear as we've seen with others.

7. I've seen lots of guys playing a skill until the nerf hammer comes down, then all of a sudden those builds disappear and everyone goes for the next flavour of the month.

1. This pretty much goes without saying
2. Because this gear magnifies the "problem" and it is therefore easier to see.
3. Cause balance.
4. ok
5. It destroys the integrity of the race.
6. Crit has been "looked at" since day 1. careful is the last thing ggg does.
7. Because people tend to play the most efficient build.

I am wondering how much thought you actually gave to these things.

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Xtorma wrote:

1. This pretty much goes without saying
2. Because this gear magnifies the "problem" and it is therefore easier to see.
3. Cause balance.
4. ok
5. It destroys the integrity of the race.
6. Crit has been "looked at" since day 1. careful is the last thing ggg does.
7. Because people tend to play the most efficient build.

I am wondering how much thought you actually gave to these things.

The problem is that everyone only seems to be crying NERF NERF NERF!!!!! These days.

If you don't like someone who is OP in your eyes, play with someone else or go solo like most people are doing these days.

Most league ports I'm having to redesign my builds due to the whimpering and whining of others.

Besides during these times we don't get a bandit respec, which forces us to use Regrets.

You can't fight against the balance fanatics. they believe they are right , and no amount of discussion can sway them.

you hear "nerf nerf nerf " because balance is a two sided coin, nerf first buff second.

you need to nerf crit , see how the nerf crit plays out , THEN buff the residual mechanics.

many people on the nerf train are well aware that some things would need to be buffed to replace a waning crit meta.




but i think they have learned enough from mirrior/ decoy mechanic to leave the more considerable changes to the next set of leagues



that is not to say that some of the nerf crys are miss guided. but in the case of crit it is.


you should not be able to get 100% crit chance , because that is no longer crit , that is simply your damage at that point.

and if you make multi too high it makes all other damage scalers worthless , which is the case now as once you get over 300% multi , crit is clearly superior to stacking attack speed or just additive % damage when there really should not be a clear winner.

you guys can complain all you want about how this would ruin your crit build, but come on it is not like they are dropping a bomb on your face out of nowhere , the crit issue has been boiling over for atleast a year now. it is your own damn fault for investing in something that is at or at the very least very near the chopping block in some capacity.


if my ts/ ice shot shot ranger lost 50% of her dps from crit, i would not care she already clears 78s faster than all my other characters while in full mf gear with 40% less dps than her her real gear.
(18k vs 35k aoe)



plus another thing people need to understand is that a massive amount of nerfed mechanics in the past year have happened specifically because ggg did not address crit enough.

puncture? oh you can bet your ass that would not have been as high on the to do list if not for being able to get 800% crit multi turning a single puncture into a multiplier damage machine.

1. Actually on the contrary i have seen them being influenced by the forum alot. Alot more than i would like, and several times lead to unfair nerfs

2. I was(am, but not play) a mirrored item owner + acuity etc. and still asked for balance, that included nerfing my playstyle

3. My build guide was the second most popular build of all time in terms of views and pages in the shadow section. This did/does not prevent me for asking for changes to crit, ene though it was a crit character.

4. Ok, but the system is now broken cause it has created monopolies and it is impossible to compete against the overlords.

5,6,7 nothing i disagree with.

I'd be cautious to lump everybody into the same category. There are those who just cry nerf, for whatever their reason may be; however, there are also those who spend the time exploring the dynamics between various mechanics and content, and propose that reducing the power of certain problem areas could increase design space to create a better game elsewhere. That is the essence of balance feedback (and being a "beta tester"), and these people are an entirely different calibre than you give them credit for.

This is an important point, because reality is often much more moderate than the toxic polarization that inevitably results from such stereotyping.

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CanHasPants wrote:

I'd be cautious to lump everybody into the same category. There are those who just cry nerf, for whatever their reason may be; however, there are also those who spend the time exploring the dynamics between various mechanics and content, and propose that reducing the power of certain problem areas could increase design space to create a better game elsewhere. That is the essence of balance feedback (and being a "beta tester"), and these people are an entirely different calibre than you give them credit for.

This is an important point, because reality is often much more moderate than the toxic polarization that inevitably results from such stereotyping.

Balance Nazis are not some savior that cries for the good of the game and are some caliber above everyone else. they are like everyone else. They cry for what they want the game to be, and screw you if you want something different.

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GrumpyBear5043 wrote:

4. Guys with mirror items, I take my hat off to them, as I've been trying to craft "mirror-able" items and wow its not easy and costs tons of currency. So good luck to them and their items they've crafted. That said there is a lot of awesome gear out there, which is very good, even though its not "mirror-able

After my experience and knowledge, they gained their "beeing able to craft mirror worthy stuff status" once and mostly by bugusing.

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Xtorma wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

I'd be cautious to lump everybody into the same category. There are those who just cry nerf, for whatever their reason may be; however, there are also those who spend the time exploring the dynamics between various mechanics and content, and propose that reducing the power of certain problem areas could increase design space to create a better game elsewhere. That is the essence of balance feedback (and being a "beta tester"), and these people are an entirely different calibre than you give them credit for.

This is an important point, because reality is often much more moderate than the toxic polarization that inevitably results from such stereotyping.

Balance Nazis are not some savior that cries for the good of the game and are some caliber above everyone else. they are like everyone else. They cry for what they want the game to be, and screw you if you want something different.

You're blind, and your presence is likely toxic.

You're incautious to call everybody you disagree with a "balance nazi," foolish not to accept that peoples' motives can extend beyond their own gain (e.g., Moo's often discusses balance which, if acted upon, would like set him back), and reading too much into what I say by suggesting my words mean "they're better than everyone else."

The fact still remains, reality is often much more moderate than your opinion alone. So long as you continue to polarize the debate, your presence in this thread is nothing but ironic--a thread which, by appearances, is calling for a more balanced approach to game rebalance. If GGG do respond to forum feedback (and I believe there is sufficient evidence that they do), then that very likely could be a problem, because by large the forum is incapable of objectivity.