Skills that have to be nerfed in order to achieve a balanced game

Well i can tell you something about Arc, it is awesome against packs, but have you ever tried to kill 75+ uniques without whites/blues around? How about bosses? And without you dying?

I have limited exp. with Discharge, but same goes with it, how to gain enough charges against single targets? Can you survive the required build-uptime? I couldn't, but my character wasn't build for Discharge, just tried it out with my Arc-Templar.

OP melee skills? lol, if there are any, why isn't perma-stunner mentioned, that's OP if something.

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vangrandson wrote:

Melee:
Cyclon, static strike and flicker strike

So that they suck like the other melee skills too?

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vangrandson wrote:

Kinetic Blast and tornado shot

I could agree that KB+Frostwall CoC combo maybe is too strong, but normal KB? ...not really
e.g. Split arrow actually is better than tornado shot with high-end gear so I dont really see any problem with that neither.

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vangrandson wrote:

Spells:
Incinerate, flameblast, arc and discharge

Incinerate is pretty mediocre especially in terms of clear speed. Well ok you can get pretty good surviveability as you dont have to waste so many points in crit like other skills but you definately need it to face-tank all the stuff. you cant kite with incinerate and if you dont facetank you also do very poor dmg... Oh and did you even do a map as incinerate guy with a good glacial cascade, ice nova... build? probably not as you would know how mediocre incinerate clearspeed is compared to a lot of other (caster) builds

Flameblast is ok after the nerf.
So on the one hand you are whining about crit is dominating and on the other hand you want to nerf the (almost) only two working no-crit builds????

Arc... I dont see how arc is better than glacial cascade or freezing pulse or ice nova or ball lightning or lightning tendrils or the other spells you call "overpowered". In fact arc is one of the weaker spells imho.

Discharge... lol did you even play a real discharge build? it pretty much sucks... well burning discharge is ok I guess.
There also is coc discharge (poor defense) and mjolner (don't you think you should do a bit more dmg when you pay 60-100ex for it than other builds with a 10c weapon???)

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vangrandson wrote:

Utility skills:
The combination of blood rage + enhance + quality blood magic

well I guess blood rage's quality bonus is OP... not sure about this. You don't really see a lot of low life builds in HC.. too squishy



@burn-nerf crybabies:

why the hell should you nerf burn?
If you don't kill with 1 burn anymore it would have insanely shitty clear-speed...
You also don't have leech and most burn builds are pretty prone to reflect. There also are burn immune bosses...
As you see burn builds already have a lot of drawbacks.
Burn also is way too complex to simply hit with the nerf-club on it like a moron. It would impact way too many builds and even IF! it would need a nerf you can nott treat herald of ash burn prolif, firearrow trapper, 3Dragon burner, fireball, detonate dead, flameblast and all other different burn builds like they are the same!

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PyleWarlord wrote:

Well i can tell you something about Arc, it is awesome against packs, but have you ever tried to kill 75+ uniques without whites/blues around? How about bosses? And without you dying?

I have limited exp. with Discharge, but same goes with it, how to gain enough charges against single targets? Can you survive the required build-uptime? I couldn't, but my character wasn't build for Discharge, just tried it out with my Arc-Templar.

OP melee skills? lol, if there are any, why isn't perma-stunner mentioned, that's OP if something.

oh you should see the shit one can do with one tough enemy and discharge, fucking hilarious.

God dem, the nerfboards is at it again. hmm, the KB and TS rally is indeed expected though, I don't see anything wrong with them atm tbh, they're just popular because its strength makes up for shit gear, KB shortened the gap between mirrored gear wanders and low-end to average gear wanders, TS absolutely sucks in clear speed compared to Split/Chain in high end gear.

But how about melee skills that needs buff/rebuff?

Frenzy
Glacial Hammer
Heavy Strike... :)
Ground Slam
Infernal Blow
Sweep
ELEMENTAL HIT (YES, WHY DOES THIS HAVE EVEN LOWER DPS THAN FRENZY AND HAS WAY HIGHER MANA COST TOO? DAFUQ?)

If there was, say, a master craft mod and/or support gem, that reversed the direction of knockback (toward the player) Sweep and Heavy Strike would be very grateful. K thx bye ^-^

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Probably something like this for Ele Prolif:

Base radius to 21 for all levels
Bonus per 1% quality: 2% larger proliferation area (29 at q20, 30 at q23)
Glvl1: 50% less Burning Damage, 50% less Chill/Freeze/Shock duration
Glvl21: 30% less Burning Damage, 30% less Chill/Freeze/Shock duration

I'd personally rather see the initial nerf just be 70% across the board, the duration is a good idea. I like the quality idea, I also prefer the growing AOE, maybe start at 10-15 and end at 20-25. So I like the way you're nerfing it, I just think the numbers need some playing around. My worry with 50% is non-OP(ish) fire sources, like fireball, will suffer greatly from such a giant reduction.

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OJ8_Graz wrote:

Frenzy
Glacial Hammer
Heavy Strike... :)
Ground Slam
Infernal Blow
Sweep
ELEMENTAL HIT (YES, WHY DOES THIS HAVE EVEN LOWER DPS THAN FRENZY AND HAS WAY HIGHER MANA COST TOO? DAFUQ?)

Sweep is fine because of hegy staff. The rest suck because for them to work with splash you have to hit a target first. With desync being a problem, and because packs don't just sit on top of you, they move around, it's too likely you're going to be trying to hit something that's walking away. These skills suck because of how they function w/ splash (also because splash's AOE is among the smallest of all AOE skills).

edit: just noticed GS on there. IMO GS is the best melee skill atm. It's drawback right now is that it's best with 1h weapons, which means only specters. Reave and cyclone have the benefit of being used with many more and also all the popular ones, i.e. daggers.

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CanHasPants wrote:

If there was, say, a master craft mod and/or support gem, that reversed the direction of knockback (toward the player) Sweep and Heavy Strike would be very grateful. K thx bye ^-^

I talked Mouze into trying to get his unique to have this, dude still hasn't locked in a unique idea after 2 years, I think this is his 4-5th attempt but he just gives up after 1-2 nos from GGG. GGG said they are worried about adding in this function, even though they would like to have it, because of it's interaction with hegy's staff. I guess we should have tried to get it in earlier. I've been begging for pull in skills since CB. I really hope they come soon.

I agree with the premise that a lot of the skills described are imbalanced relative to other skills.

Only thing I disagree with is what to do about it. Not all of those should be nerfed, some should probably get a nerf but others just need to be left alone and have other less powerful skills brought in line with them.

One thing I know for sure is viper strike needs a massive fix. When you can literally make a viper strike character and then clear faster by swapping that skill with another one, there is a problem.

Also I don't think the state of uniques in poe should be any indication of build performance in poe at all. All skills should be balanced around having rares in every slot imo. I'm sure people will disagree with me on that one though because "zomg uniques"

tornado shot and flameblast sure, I can see the reasoning. these are extremely powerful.

kinetic blast I havent seen enough of it to understand full impact so I wont comment on it
blood rage attack bonus could be lower

the rest are fine.

I think those talking about prolif nerf should consider carefully the potential effect on melee. While I can't speak for the intent of the developers, I had always assumed that heralds were built to give melee a bit better clear speed, personally. It's unfortunate that instead we see mostly non-melee builds blowing up rooms with it, but reducing its effectiveness will, as a result, slow down melee builds.

Also unfortunately I can't off the top of my head think of an easy, elegant way to change prolif or Herald of Ash (the underlying culprit) to be less effective for spells but still retain good use for melee builds.