Claw Skills, Its About Time We Get A New One / Two

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TikoXi wrote:
as a 50% LL claw cycloner in maps - I can say that the main problem with claws is that, while they don't really need to fill an offensive niche, their skill tree nodes suck ass.

Because you;re stacking dex, their accuracy isn't often a problem, but comparable to every other dex weapon. Their crit modifiers however are shockingly bad. A grand total of what, 60%? Comepared to the 150% for swords and what, 400% for daggers? come on now.
Their base damage is only slightly better than daggers, but then daggers have all that implicit crit, but the most damning thing about them is their attack speed COUNTERS their implicit.

With the changes to Lifeleech stacking, having high attack speed, which claws are reasonably good at attaining (not like foils though :/) is very very undesirably. You want to hit less frequently, and harder. The problem comes when you realize that claws base damage and phys nodes from the tree are lousy as hell. And there are no high level lgoh claws that would facilitate high AS, elemental builds.

Claws just got the worst of both worlds. They need a bit of a redesign before they come back into the fore. Something to counteract the Lifeleech nerfs


Now this is what we call constructive feedback +1.

Seeing the way you've put it here, it looks like they need to be redesigned as well as the skilltree adjusted to support this redesign. ATM claws are only good for defense as they do leech well but as mentioned above the nerf to life leech knocked then hard.

To Die Is Not An Option, To Fight Until DIESync Is The Only Answer. ☺☻☺

Happy Hunting Exiles.
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Nut Slash
_________

Melee, AOE

Performs an attack targeted at the various nutsacks of the surrounding enemies. Has a wide AOE, but suffers from reduced accuracy (nutsacks are hard to hit in the heat of battle). Hits have a higher base crit chance (like dude, you just ripped open that guys nutsack).

Can only be used with Claws.

__________

Base Crit Chance - 12.5%
50% Reduced Accuracy

__________

1% increased accuracy per Quality


:)


Now that was really constructive feedback!!!!


After reading TikoXis post, I think the Nut Slash could use a Crit multiplier modifier as well, but it might mean reducing the base crit chance.

I haven't played with claws yet, but this whole thread is making me want to give it a go.
== Officially Retired 27/02/2019 ==

Massive thanks to GGG for producing such a fun and engaging game, it has taken up faaaaaaar too much of my life over the last 5 years.

Best of luck in the future!
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Nut Slash
_________

Melee, AOE

Performs an attack targeted at the various nutsacks of the surrounding enemies. Has a wide AOE, but suffers from reduced accuracy (nutsacks are hard to hit in the heat of battle). Hits have a higher base crit chance (like dude, you just ripped open that guys nutsack).

Can only be used with Claws.

__________

Base Crit Chance - 12.5%
50% Reduced Accuracy

__________

1% increased accuracy per Quality


:)


Now that was really constructive feedback!!!!


After reading TikoXis post, I think the Nut Slash could use a Crit multiplier modifier as well, but it might mean reducing the base crit chance.

I haven't played with claws yet, but this whole thread is making me want to give it a go.


Please stay on topic, because claws need attention serious attention to some redesign or skill tree changes.

Well if you haven't got an OP claw then don't bother, you'll just be wasting your time.
To Die Is Not An Option, To Fight Until DIESync Is The Only Answer. ☺☻☺

Happy Hunting Exiles.
My sincere apologies. My intention was merely to indicate support for development of claws as a build opportunity, I am in full agreement that they are currently under powered and under utilised outside of a small number of potential pathways.

I've edited my original irrelevant bullshit into something more appropriate.
== Officially Retired 27/02/2019 ==

Massive thanks to GGG for producing such a fun and engaging game, it has taken up faaaaaaar too much of my life over the last 5 years.

Best of luck in the future!
Last edited by CaptainWaffleIron on Feb 18, 2015, 9:58:08 PM
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My sincere apologies. My intention was merely to indicate support for development of claws as a build opportunity, I am in full agreement that they are currently under powered and under utilised outside of a small number of potential pathways.

I've edited my original irrelevant bullshit into something more appropriate.


Thx for your apology not that it was needed, as I know how guys rip into serious topics on the forums, that said I am try to get claws to obtain a little attention from the developers, as IMHO they are the weakest items in the game. Proven by the use of them by players, unless you have an OP Claw, but that goes for any weapon. As for the uniques there is no real "oh yes I must try and get that claw" available except for this
but with the life leech nerf I'm not so sure either.
To Die Is Not An Option, To Fight Until DIESync Is The Only Answer. ☺☻☺

Happy Hunting Exiles.
Just gonna throw it out there.

1) make the leach implicit from claws global.

This would allow elemental claw builds, but more specifically caster/fighter hybrids.

2) the steal a charge could be changed to a 10% chance to steal a charge from any mob, even if it does not have a charge. So in a sense a randomized steal function that is always valuable instead of a very arbitrary one.

Both of these changes would do a lot for claws and for sure would open up new interesting routes to try.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
For one thing, I think increased leech rate should be available in some claw clusters on the tree. Everyone else can go Vaal Pact if they want instant leech and that's fine, but if leech is going to be a claw specialty, they should be able to not be held back too much by the high attack speed they're also good at.

I'd also like the LGoH and leech claws to split into two full streams like accuracy and crit multiplier swords are, or at least have the LGoH implicits not stop completely at a certain point in the progression.

I like the charge-steal notable as it is - thematically, at least; maybe the numbers could use a tweak, I don't know. Free charges from everything feels like generation more than stealing; doesn't fit the theme as well to me. If you were going to make it able to create charges from any mob, I'd at least split it up into different, themed nodes for each kind of charge.
Rend, Dexterity Active Skill
Attack, Melee
Recklessly attack, causing extensive damage to your enemy at the cost of damage to yourself.
Requires axe, claw, dagger or sword
Deals 200% of base damage
x% increased Physical Damage
Enemies reflect x% of Damage
0.5% increased Attack Speed per 1 quality
7 mana cost

Glvl Clvl IncPhys Reflect
1 1 - 5.0%
2 2 10% 5.2%
3 4 20% 5.4%
4 8 30% 5.6%
5 12 40% 5.8%
6 16 50% 6.0%
7 21 60% 6.2%
8 26 70% 6.4%
9 32 80% 6.6%
10 38 90% 6.8%
11 42 100% 7.0%
12 46 110% 7.2%
13 49 120% 7.4%
14 52 130% 7.6%
15 55 140% 7.8%
16 58 150% 8.0%
17 61 160% 8.2%
18 64 170% 8.4%
19 66 180% 8.6%
20 68 190% 8.8%
21 68 200% 9.0%
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Feb 19, 2015, 1:01:54 AM
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I like the charge-steal notable as it is - thematically, at least; maybe the numbers could use a tweak, I don't know. Free charges from everything feels like generation more than stealing; doesn't fit the theme as well to me. If you were going to make it able to create charges from any mob, I'd at least split it up into different, themed nodes for each kind of charge.


Here is the thing from my perspective, as a theory-crafter this node is useless.

It has effect on maybe a grand total of 0.5% of the entire content.
(dischargers/frenzy on dead packs? if you don't kill all in a single blow that is and specific map modifiers X charges per X seconds, not much more comes to mind)

This makes it an extremely bad point investment, thank god it's not the only stat on that passive node or it would be a dead node, never touched even if it was at the end of a cluster.

You also cannot reliably build around it from my perspective.

Let's say, it steals a random charge at a 10% rate on all mobs, regardless if they have one or not, suddenly that node becomes attractive and has a potential to make some retarded combinations possible.

1) discharge comes to mind (coupled with a global life leach modifier on claws would be yummy and fun)

2) cold snap has potential and flicker strike.

3) static charges boost or item based build (blood dance/daresso's defiance)

If it's a reliable gain, you open up build potential. hell lower it to 5% chance or something if its to insane, point being, you need reliability in PoE in order to invest in it, passive point wise.

Currently it's only use in end-game is on x chargers per seconds maps, which adds a currency cost to a passive node. That's insane, think about it. It also doesn't promote any certain play-style or flavor.

You just encounter a charge user (rarely if ever) and steal it, but you can't rely on it so can't compose a build around this element.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
To me, that's just the thing: it's not the only stat on that node. It's not something you have to be planning a build around, it's just a fun little bonus for users of this kind of weapon. I quite like that kind of "flavour", and I think it's fine for individual bonuses on notable passives not to be able to be the centrepiece of a build. I mean, I'm not going to construct my build around the +10 Strength and Intelligence on Catalyse, or the +10% One Handed Accuracy on Studious Combatant. For most any notable on the tree, most builds that take it would do just fine without one or more of the stats on it. That's not really a problem.

That, and a 5% chance to get any kind of charge on any hit, at the end of an attack speed cluster for a fast weapon, still sounds pretty insane. The only other passive stats on the tree to gain charges like this are the two staff nodes. 10% chance on block isn't going to be huge with a staff, and 10% chance on staff crit is inferior to a PCoC gem - and usually nodes that replace a gem are keystones (Iron Grip, Blood Magic, Point Blank).

If this was a chance on hit for a random charge, I'd be concerned that there would really be no way to do it well. If it's too low a chance it's unreliable, so you don't like it. But if it ever becomes "reliable", you have a constant flow of of all three types of charges, and that seems way overboard in terms of power for one stat on a notable passive.

If it was part of a keystone, it'd be a different matter. Those are supposed to be game-changers.

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